"Gavin Staples" wrote in message
...


Lets look at the good news on global warming. Yes there is a big flipside
and this has comes from scientists.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...12/ixhome.html

Phew, that's alright then!

Let's burn more oil.......

Col
--
Bolton, Lancashire.
160m asl.
http://www.reddwarfer.btinternet.co.uk
http://www.reddwarfer.btinternet.co....rPictures.html

"Col" wrote in message
...

"Gavin Staples" wrote in message
...


Lets look at the good news on global warming. Yes there is a big flipside
and this has comes from scientists.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...12/ixhome.html

Phew, that's alright then!

Let's burn more oil.......

Col
--
Bolton, Lancashire.
160m asl.
http://www.reddwarfer.btinternet.co.uk
http://www.reddwarfer.btinternet.co....rPictures.html


I agree Col that we are a very wasteful society, there is the personal
aspect of waste things like putting the heating on when a pullover would
suffice, or boiling two gallons of water during the course of the day to
make three cups of tea/coffee. In all honesty most people /consumers haven't
got a clue abiut the enormouse amount of energy it takes to get that kettle
boiling, so lots can be acheived in cutting down on personal waste that i)
makes the environment more unpleasant for all of us than it has to be and
ii) Just the pure common sense of not thrwoing your money away.

Then there's the other aspect of seemingfull waste, my now deceased ex
father-in-law was a soft-left (thats meant to descriptive not derogatory)
labour party supporting paediatrician, a Professor in fact. he used to
agonize at the waste just in his dept alone. Stuff like sterilised equipment
where it would be far more econonomical to dispose off as opposed to clean.
If you take PC's, sometimes on the mother board something as simple as a
capacitior may have died-worth pennies, the trouble is the cost of paying a
person to find that fault nearly always exceeds the expense of just buying a
new and invaribly upgraded version.
The other major problem for me is wether we spit the word out or not we live
under a specific type of commodity producing system called Capitalism. The
joke is that Thatcher never had any problem with using that word whatsover
wherase I don't think Tony Blair or Gordon Brown have never used that word
once in their political lives! However I digress, surely it's the way,
almost the coercement, of how the system has to work that makes recycling,
effieciency of resources almost impossible to apply.

So fighting hard to curb my waffling, nutcase persona, I'll end by saying
that I hate the waste, the seemingly wanton use of resources, but that's the
only way it can work under the almost binding forces of the economic system.
It's not greed, it's not selfishness it's just the way it works. Until the
penny , if it ever does drop, that's all we have.
With it all it's complexities investments, pension schemes, industries etc
these words all though not green words like Teppee, Dolphin, Solar energy;
are the words that describe all the things that allow the majority of us to
live better than at any other time in human history. Kyoto and all it's
implications based on something that could yet fool us all and reverse,
could plunge the thing into world recession. I think we tend to forget just
the events of the last hundred years let alone ice-core samples going back
tens of thousands!


We could go back to the old fuedal system, no mechanisation of farming
techniques 7 agricultural workes needed to feed ten people.
My cynicism of the hype of global warming is simply this
If there is a problem of exhausting natural resources and increasing C02-
well ration the consumption, don't cheat us by charging more, As I've said
before the term "congestion charging" (now being used by Alastair Darling)
is a down right lie. It's as simple as this, if you can pay, then you can
congest. This whole thing of sayiing it's a globle crisis and we'll resolve
it (fictitious or not) by making people pay more is in my book tantamount to
racketeering .

"lawrence Jenkins" wrote in message
...

"Col" wrote in message
...

"Gavin Staples" wrote in message
...


Lets look at the good news on global warming. Yes there is a big
flipside
and this has comes from scientists.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...12/ixhome.html

Phew, that's alright then!

Let's burn more oil.......

Col
--
Bolton, Lancashire.
160m asl.
http://www.reddwarfer.btinternet.co.uk
http://www.reddwarfer.btinternet.co....rPictures.html


I agree Col that we are a very wasteful society, there is the personal
aspect of waste things like putting the heating on when a pullover would
suffice, or boiling two gallons of water during the course of the day to
make three cups of tea/coffee. In all honesty most people /consumers
haven't got a clue abiut the enormouse amount of energy it takes to get
that kettle boiling, so lots can be acheived in cutting down on personal
waste that i) makes the environment more unpleasant for all of us than it
has to be and ii) Just the pure common sense of not thrwoing your money
away.

Then there's the other aspect of seemingfull waste, my now deceased ex
father-in-law was a soft-left (thats meant to descriptive not derogatory)
labour party supporting paediatrician, a Professor in fact. he used to
agonize at the waste just in his dept alone. Stuff like sterilised
equipment where it would be far more econonomical to dispose off as
opposed to clean.
If you take PC's, sometimes on the mother board something as simple as a
capacitior may have died-worth pennies, the trouble is the cost of paying
a person to find that fault nearly always exceeds the expense of just
buying a new and invaribly upgraded version.
The other major problem for me is wether we spit the word out or not we
live under a specific type of commodity producing system called
Capitalism. The joke is that Thatcher never had any problem with using
that word whatsover wherase I don't think Tony Blair or Gordon Brown have
never used that word once in their political lives! However I digress,
surely it's the way, almost the coercement, of how the system has to work
that makes recycling, effieciency of resources almost impossible to apply.

So fighting hard to curb my waffling, nutcase persona, I'll end by saying
that I hate the waste, the seemingly wanton use of resources, but that's
the only way it can work under the almost binding forces of the economic
system. It's not greed, it's not selfishness it's just the way it works.
Until the penny , if it ever does drop, that's all we have.
With it all it's complexities investments, pension schemes, industries etc
these words all though not green words like Teppee, Dolphin, Solar energy;
are the words that describe all the things that allow the majority of us
to live better than at any other time in human history. Kyoto and all it's
implications based on something that could yet fool us all and reverse,
could plunge the thing into world recession. I think we tend to forget
just the events of the last hundred years let alone ice-core samples going
back tens of thousands!


We could go back to the old fuedal system, no mechanisation of farming
techniques 7 agricultural workes needed to feed ten people.
My cynicism of the hype of global warming is simply this
If there is a problem of exhausting natural resources and increasing C02-
well ration the consumption, don't cheat us by charging more, As I've said
before the term "congestion charging" (now being used by Alastair Darling)
is a down right lie. It's as simple as this, if you can pay, then you can
congest. This whole thing of sayiing it's a globle crisis and we'll
resolve it (fictitious or not) by making people pay more is in my book
tantamount to racketeering .



That's exactly how I feel about the whole argument. This here is a rational
way of putting the argument. Something like this ought to be said a lot more
often.


Gavin.

"Gavin Staples" wrote in message
...



That's exactly how I feel about the whole argument. This here is a rational
way of putting the argument. Something like this ought to be said a lot more
often.

The whole thrust of that article was that as long as climate change
didn't affect Britain too much, we would be OK. We might get more
tourists! What a bloody selfish attitude, completely ignoring what
might be happening in other parts of the world. We get hotter
summers, fine you might think but what of the increased incidence
of severe weather events that already appears to be happening?

So we just blithely carry on do you think and ignore what
is going on around us? A 2C rise? Howabout 5C or 10C?
Do you know what happened on Venus?

And then there's the possibility of a Younger Dryas type event
where the Atlantic conveyor is shut down.
The point is, we just don't know!

And some people think it's OK because they will get to wear
their shorts more often?

The point is even if we in this country would be relatively unaffected,
or at least would have the wealth to cope with change, other countries
would not have that option.

What affect does global warming have on the Asian monsoon, the
patterns of rainfall in the Sahel or Atlantic hurricanes?
Well I don't know, and you don't know. And no climatologist knows
for sure either. But what we *do* know is that the alarm bells are
ringing. If we wait until we are *sure* it will be to late.

Col
--
Bolton, Lancashire.
160m asl.
http://www.reddwarfer.btinternet.co.uk
http://www.reddwarfer.btinternet.co....rPictures.html

"Col" wrote in message
tourists! What a bloody selfish attitude, completely ignoring what
might be happening in other parts of the world. We get hotter

Col it's those "other parts of the world" that are going to become major
contributors to Co2 emmissions. It is unresolvable under the present
situation. Russia. Ukraine, China, India, Pakistan and so on all want what
we've had for nigh on 30 years . Can you blame them? If we we to cut back
drastically on our consumption of fossil fuels besides the economy being
derailed do you think those countries would stop. I'm not religious but I
suggest we all pray that Human GW is a red herring. Old Bjorn Lomberg has it
on the nail.

"Gavin Staples" wrote in message
...

"lawrence Jenkins" wrote in message
...

"doof" wrote in message
...
In message ,
lawrence
Jenkins writes


Besides, I look at Tony Blair....... and wonder....

when we will we reach 80 pence taxation in the pound ?




Lets look at the good news on global warming. Yes there is a big flipside
and this has comes from scientists.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...2/nwarm12.xml&
sSheet=/news/2005/06/12/ixhome.html


Gavin.

This particular paragraph caught my eye. It's me old mate Sir Liam
Donaldson, a man knighted by the Labour Party in 2002 I beleive. He has been
in a pivotal position in the NHS all through the MRSA situation and he
recently surfaced with the revised Heatwave Contingency planning

"Other climate-related health scares have collapsed under close scrutiny. In
2002, Professor Sir Liam Donaldson, the Chief Medical Officer, added his
voice to claims that Britain could be facing the return of malaria.

A subsequent analysis by experts at the London School of Hygiene and
Tropical Medicine concluded that changes in land use and socio-economic
trends made the risk "highly unlikely". Oddly, the lifting of this
eco-threat was not widely reported. "

Further to the return of Malaria to England,. I've always been under the
understanding that mosquito carrying malaria disappeared when areas like the
Fenlands were drained and stagnant water engineered away. So another
headline unresearched diatribe from a govnment scientific advisor. What next
John Prescott the Astronomer Royal?

In article ,
Gavin Staples writes:
Lets look at the good news on global warming. Yes there is a big flipside
and this has comes from scientists.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main...12/ixhome.html

That would be the Robert Matthews piece? GW might be a good thing if it
could be relied on to stop after a warming of 1-2 degrees, which most of
the pro-GW scientists quoted seem to be implicitly assuming. But aren't
the indications that it will continue well beyond that? So, yes, it
conceivably might be good news in the short term, but what about in 50
years time or more?

As for the no significant sea-level increase so far bit, that may be
because not much land-based ice has yet melted, and the melting of sea
ice doesn't increase sea-level. But if the Greenland icecap was to go,
that would increase the level by a matter of feet rather than inches.
Ditto the West Antarctic icecap. And if the East Antarctic cap was to go
- which admittedly would probably take a very long time - then we'd be
looking at an increase of several hundred feet.
--
John Hall

"Whenever people agree with me I always feel I must be wrong."
Oscar Wilde

"Col" wrote in message
...

"Gavin Staples" wrote in message
...



That's exactly how I feel about the whole argument. This here is a
rational
way of putting the argument. Something like this ought to be said a lot
more
often.

The whole thrust of that article was that as long as climate change
didn't affect Britain too much, we would be OK. We might get more
tourists! What a bloody selfish attitude, completely ignoring what
might be happening in other parts of the world. We get hotter
summers, fine you might think but what of the increased incidence
of severe weather events that already appears to be happening?

actually the Telegraph article also pointed out that there would be effects
on may other areas which would be equally positive.

Jim Webster

wrote in message
...



A subsequent analysis by experts at the London School of Hygiene and
Tropical Medicine concluded that changes in land use and socio-economic
trends made the risk "highly unlikely". Oddly, the lifting of this
eco-threat was not widely reported. "

Further to the return of Malaria to England,. I've always been under the
understanding that mosquito carrying malaria disappeared when areas like
the
Fenlands were drained and stagnant water engineered away.

interesting but the environmentalists are demanding more wetlands, and under
various agri-environmental schemes they are being produced. In agriculture
some people are wondering how long before they are re-drained because of a
malaria threat

Jim Webster

wrote in message
...

I'm not religious but I suggest we all pray that Human GW is a red herring.

But it is not a red herring. It is happening now. You claim that you are not
religous. Then you will have no problem understanding that no amount of
praying is going to save us. We have no god given right that we will
protected from our follies. Like the weather system, the climate system is
just a machine. Like the weather system, it can react with extrerme
ferocity. Like the weather system, it has no mercy!

Cheers, Alastair.