Just seen the news on ITN. Someone gave a rainfall totals figure of 42 mm.
Seems a hell of a lot more than that. There may well have been no rain
gauges on the areas where there was most rainfall.
I saw one small stream had risen in height to over 7 metres, 21 feet,
and pulled large mature trees from the ground. Surely in some small
localities rainfall totals must have been well in excess of 100 mm. This
total falling in under an hour. It would have to be something like that to
get that sort of runoff.

Gavin.

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"Gavin Staples" wrote in message
...

Just seen the news on ITN. Someone gave a rainfall totals figure of
42 mm. Seems a hell of a lot more than that. There may well have been
no rain gauges on the areas where there was most rainfall.

.... I think you are right: there will have to be a re-think of the
'official' amounts quoted I suspect - integration of the radar imagery
at high resolution will be required - the Met Office may put up a
summary on the web site - they did this with the Boscastle storm.

Martin.


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Paul Hudson from BBC Look North was interviewed on News 24 at 5pm. He
said an Environment agency site near Helmsley (Hawnby?) recorded 70 mm
in 3 hours, with 60mm of that falling in just 1 hour. He said that the
intensity of the rain was of the same order of magnitude as at
Boscastle, not lasting as long though. He said that although flash
floods have always happened, the intensity and regularity over the last
few years seems to be a departure from normal and that it may be down
to climate change. Very competent account, best 'expert' interview I've
seen on the floods so far.


Martin Rowley wrote:
"Gavin Staples" wrote in message
...

Just seen the news on ITN. Someone gave a rainfall totals figure of
42 mm. Seems a hell of a lot more than that. There may well have been
no rain gauges on the areas where there was most rainfall.

... I think you are right: there will have to be a re-think of the
'official' amounts quoted I suspect - integration of the radar imagery
at high resolution will be required - the Met Office may put up a
summary on the web site - they did this with the Boscastle storm.

Martin.


--
FAQ & Glossary for uk.sci.weather at:-
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/booty.weather/uswfaqfr.htm
[ with Search facility ]
and
http://booty.org.uk/booty.weather/metindex.htm

wrote in message
oups.com...
Paul Hudson from BBC Look North was interviewed on News 24 at 5pm. He
said an Environment agency site near Helmsley (Hawnby?) recorded 70 mm
in 3 hours, with 60mm of that falling in just 1 hour.

Half an hour. These figures were quoted this morning in the
"Yorkshire flooding" thread, which may be above, depending
on your newsreader and your news provider. Naturally, it is highly
unlikely that Hawnby was close to the point of maximum rainfall.

He said that the
intensity of the rain was of the same order of magnitude as at
Boscastle, not lasting as long though. He said that although flash
floods have always happened, the intensity and regularity over the last
few years seems to be a departure from normal and that it may be down
to climate change. Very competent account, best 'expert' interview I've
seen on the floods so far.

I have to say I was surprised and disappointed to hear him say
this. I doubt he had anything other than anecdotal evidence to
suggest this. Reading through the archives of heavy localised
summer rainfall events indicates nothing of the sort. We discussed
this sort of "communal forgetfulness" last year at the time of the
Boscastle event.

Philip Eden

"Philip Eden" philipATweatherHYPHENukDOTcom wrote in message
...

wrote in message
oups.com...
Paul Hudson from BBC Look North was interviewed on News 24 at 5pm. He
said an Environment agency site near Helmsley (Hawnby?) recorded 70 mm
in 3 hours, with 60mm of that falling in just 1 hour.

Half an hour. These figures were quoted this morning in the
"Yorkshire flooding" thread, which may be above, depending
on your newsreader and your news provider. Naturally, it is highly
unlikely that Hawnby was close to the point of maximum rainfall.

He said that the
intensity of the rain was of the same order of magnitude as at
Boscastle, not lasting as long though. He said that although flash
floods have always happened, the intensity and regularity over the last
few years seems to be a departure from normal and that it may be down
to climate change. Very competent account, best 'expert' interview I've
seen on the floods so far.

I have to say I was surprised and disappointed to hear him say
this. I doubt he had anything other than anecdotal evidence to
suggest this. Reading through the archives of heavy localised
summer rainfall events indicates nothing of the sort. We discussed
this sort of "communal forgetfulness" last year at the time of the
Boscastle event.

So how many more of these events do we need to make you think
they might be the result of global warming? We have already had
Boscastle, Carlisle, and now Helmsley within the last twelve months.
How many more do we need to beak the record?

Cheers, Alastair.

As a person who has done much research re storms with the county weather
book series and my news paper articles I do not subscribe to the fact that
Boscastle or the North York floods are wide departures from the normal. If
one looks back 100 years or 200 years there are plenty of examples of flash
floods.

For instance there were very severe storms in the summer of 1900 including
one at Ilkley with over 137.8mm of rain and great damage. The next year in
1901 saw a tremendous storm in the Maidenhead area of Berkshire, again over
100mm and if that had occurred in a hilly region such as North York Moors
would have been just as bad. Storms with over 80mm of rain occurred 12 days
later in various places.

In 1902 storms in East Anglia and the South east gave nearly 100mm of rain
and hail was intense on Sept 11th/12th etc etc. There are examples for
virtually every year. Even 1907 not regarded as a year of much interest in
meteorological books had flash floods in South Wales on 22nd July similar to
yesterday.
I think yes we are warming but there have always been storms and I have not
even mentioned places such as Cannington, Louth, Horncastle, Bruton,
Martinstown, Hampstead, Holmfirth, where massive rains have fallen-there are
literally hundreds of examples and that is just since 1900.

Ian Currie-Coulsdon
www.frostedearth.com



wrote in message
oups.com...
Paul Hudson from BBC Look North was interviewed on News 24 at 5pm. He
said an Environment agency site near Helmsley (Hawnby?) recorded 70 mm
in 3 hours, with 60mm of that falling in just 1 hour. He said that the
intensity of the rain was of the same order of magnitude as at
Boscastle, not lasting as long though. He said that although flash
floods have always happened, the intensity and regularity over the last
few years seems to be a departure from normal and that it may be down
to climate change. Very competent account, best 'expert' interview I've
seen on the floods so far.

Ian Currie wrote:
As a person who has done much research re storms with the county weather
book series and my news paper articles I do not subscribe to the fact that
Boscastle or the North York floods are wide departures from the normal. If
one looks back 100 years or 200 years there are plenty of examples of flash
floods.


What is different these days is a hysterical press desperate to try and
engage us bored, media-saturated automatons.

If it's not sensational, it's not News. If it is sensational it's
done-to-death and picked over in tedious repetition for weeks afterwards.

Enough of us must lap it up I guess - for them to continue.

--
Chris
www.ivy-house.net
Swaffham, Norfolk

On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:46:54 GMT, "Ian Currie"
wrote:


I think yes we are warming but there have always been storms and I have not
even mentioned places such as Cannington, Louth, Horncastle, Bruton,
Martinstown, Hampstead, Holmfirth, where massive rains have fallen-there are
literally hundreds of examples and that is just since 1900.

Bruton-Somerset presumably? What/when was that?

Cheers Robin

28th/29th 1917 in Somerset when 244mm of rain fell.

Ian Currie- Coulsdon.




"Robin Nicholson" wrote in
message ...
On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:46:54 GMT, "Ian Currie"
wrote:


I think yes we are warming but there have always been storms and I have
not
even mentioned places such as Cannington, Louth, Horncastle, Bruton,
Martinstown, Hampstead, Holmfirth, where massive rains have fallen-there
are
literally hundreds of examples and that is just since 1900.

Bruton-Somerset presumably? What/when was that?

Cheers Robin

Sorry 28th /29th June 1917
Ian Currie-Coulsdon.



"Ian Currie" wrote in message
k...
28th/29th 1917 in Somerset when 244mm of rain fell.

Ian Currie- Coulsdon.




"Robin Nicholson" wrote in
message ...
On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 21:46:54 GMT, "Ian Currie"
wrote:


I think yes we are warming but there have always been storms and I have
not
even mentioned places such as Cannington, Louth, Horncastle, Bruton,
Martinstown, Hampstead, Holmfirth, where massive rains have
fallen-there
are
literally hundreds of examples and that is just since 1900.

Bruton-Somerset presumably? What/when was that?

Cheers Robin