discussion.txt
Address:http://www.bluehill.org/discussion.txt Changed:2:43 PM on
Friday, September 24, 2004

The site above is a reminder of the observations of yester-year when a
much better description of weather was regularly available through the
surface observations and the greatest care was taken to avoid the most
trivial mistake. There were instances of updated forecasts due to data
that the trained observer recorded that is not easily detected by
satellite. I checked for observations from central and coastal Florida
over the past 48 hours. No on site lightning detectors at the sites I
checked. Equipment failure before wind gusts reach 60KT. My home
weather station can do better than that and it runs for thirty hours
after power failure - on triple A cells. Power blackouts - with no
back-up generator. How much does it cost to repair or install a
lightning detector? Is our government's debt so severe that we cannot
even afford a workable system and have fallen behind some other
nation's observation systems as a result? In the lower 48, plus
Alaska, I have to go ten, twenty, and thirty years back into the
logbooks in order to retrieve accurate and detailed surface
observations, especially when studying events related to thunderstorm
activity, nor'easters, blizzards and tropical cyclones.

Regards,
Lou


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Lou,

While nicely written, Blue Hill's plea for help compares apples to oranges
and overlooks several key facts. Firstly, your home "Davis" or whatever
other station doesn't require much in the way of voltage and can survive
many hours on batteries. The AWOS/ASOS network contains an integrated
network of sensors and electronics, including several high voltage
instruments (ceilometer for one), and most definitely cannot operate on
battery backup. The exception of this is the barometer which is a standalone
unit. Secondly, these surface observations don't forget are owned now by the
FAA and are first and foremost for aviation use. If the airport itself is
closed to traffic, then in all likelihood there's no reason to maintain the
system during a failure.

However, what's most likely the case is that many of the ASOS/AWOS were up
and running and logging data internally just fine, but their dial out
connectivity was severred. The same would apply to your home weather
station. If you're running on battery power but have no way to transmit your
observation, then the same problem applies.

As for lightning, almost all of these stations DO have lightning sensors. A
check of NLDN data across Florida showed no thunderstorm activity associated
with the landfall of Jeanne. Given it's tropical nature, nighttime landfall,
overall weak appearance, and lack of sustained 50 dBZ echoes, I wouldn't
have expected lighthning anyways. The only thunderstorms I saw were
yesterday afternoon just offshore of West Palm, more due to afternoon
heating than anything. These were included in the PBI observations.




"Louis Gentile" wrote in message
m...
discussion.txt
Address:http://www.bluehill.org/discussion.txt Changed:2:43 PM on
Friday, September 24, 2004

The site above is a reminder of the observations of yester-year when a
much better description of weather was regularly available through the
surface observations and the greatest care was taken to avoid the most
trivial mistake. There were instances of updated forecasts due to data
that the trained observer recorded that is not easily detected by
satellite. I checked for observations from central and coastal Florida
over the past 48 hours. No on site lightning detectors at the sites I
checked. Equipment failure before wind gusts reach 60KT. My home
weather station can do better than that and it runs for thirty hours
after power failure - on triple A cells. Power blackouts - with no
back-up generator. How much does it cost to repair or install a
lightning detector? Is our government's debt so severe that we cannot
even afford a workable system and have fallen behind some other
nation's observation systems as a result? In the lower 48, plus
Alaska, I have to go ten, twenty, and thirty years back into the
logbooks in order to retrieve accurate and detailed surface
observations, especially when studying events related to thunderstorm
activity, nor'easters, blizzards and tropical cyclones.

Regards,
Lou


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"Meteorologically Disturbed" wrote in message news:liV5d.125744$D%.14979@attbi_s51...
Lou,

While nicely written, Blue Hill's plea for help compares apples to oranges
and overlooks several key facts. Firstly, your home "Davis" or whatever
other station doesn't require much in the way of voltage and can survive
many hours on batteries. The AWOS/ASOS network contains an integrated
network of sensors and electronics, including several high voltage
instruments (ceilometer for one), and most definitely cannot operate on
battery backup. The exception of this is the barometer which is a standalone
unit. Secondly, these surface observations don't forget are owned now by the
FAA and are first and foremost for aviation use. If the airport itself is
closed to traffic, then in all likelihood there's no reason to maintain the
system during a failure.

However, what's most likely the case is that many of the ASOS/AWOS were up
and running and logging data internally just fine, but their dial out
connectivity was severred. The same would apply to your home weather
station. If you're running on battery power but have no way to transmit your
observation, then the same problem applies.

As for lightning, almost all of these stations DO have lightning sensors. A
check of NLDN data across Florida showed no thunderstorm activity associated
with the landfall of Jeanne. Given it's tropical nature, nighttime landfall,
overall weak appearance, and lack of sustained 50 dBZ echoes, I wouldn't
have expected lighthning anyways. The only thunderstorms I saw were
yesterday afternoon just offshore of West Palm, more due to afternoon
heating than anything. These were included in the PBI observations.




"Louis Gentile" wrote in message
m...
discussion.txt
Address:http://www.bluehill.org/discussion.txt Changed:2:43 PM on
Friday, September 24, 2004

The site above is a reminder of the observations of yester-year when a
much better description of weather was regularly available through the
surface observations and the greatest care was taken to avoid the most
trivial mistake. There were instances of updated forecasts due to data
that the trained observer recorded that is not easily detected by
satellite. I checked for observations from central and coastal Florida
over the past 48 hours. No on site lightning detectors at the sites I
checked. Equipment failure before wind gusts reach 60KT. My home
weather station can do better than that and it runs for thirty hours
after power failure - on triple A cells. Power blackouts - with no
back-up generator. How much does it cost to repair or install a
lightning detector? Is our government's debt so severe that we cannot
even afford a workable system and have fallen behind some other
nation's observation systems as a result? In the lower 48, plus
Alaska, I have to go ten, twenty, and thirty years back into the
logbooks in order to retrieve accurate and detailed surface
observations, especially when studying events related to thunderstorm
activity, nor'easters, blizzards and tropical cyclones.

Regards,
Lou


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Thanks for the info. I should have realized that my triple A battery
cannot run FAA equipment. The stations I checked had "TSNO" in the RMK
section of the obs as soon as personell were evacuated. Thank you for
telling me about the connections being severed. I didn't think of that
when I posted, because back in our days it didn't make a difference.
SOAs were still logged in, so the climatological record was not
interupted, not to say what the case is today because it's been a long
time if you know what I mean. When the downsizing began I was informed
about what this was going to mean. (1) The loss of vital observation
data, not detectable by satellite, that would no longer be used in
forecasting due to no on sight meteorologist or meterological
technician. Over the past seven years, we have already seen some
situations where timely amendments to the forecast would have been
made had this data been available. (2) The effect on safety at
airports. (3) Increased danger of loss of data during power failure.
The automated system has been valuable in providing us with a
significant increase in sites. However, we still need more stations
with on site personell. Your post was very well written also. Thanks
for filling me in on some important points. Take care, Lou


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"Meteorologically Disturbed" wrote in message news:liV5d.125744$D%.14979@attbi_s51...
Lou,

While nicely written, Blue Hill's plea for help compares apples to oranges
and overlooks several key facts. Firstly, your home "Davis" or whatever
other station doesn't require much in the way of voltage and can survive
many hours on batteries. The AWOS/ASOS network contains an integrated
network of sensors and electronics, including several high voltage
instruments (ceilometer for one), and most definitely cannot operate on
battery backup. The exception of this is the barometer which is a standalone
unit. Secondly, these surface observations don't forget are owned now by the
FAA and are first and foremost for aviation use. If the airport itself is
closed to traffic, then in all likelihood there's no reason to maintain the
system during a failure.

However, what's most likely the case is that many of the ASOS/AWOS were up
and running and logging data internally just fine, but their dial out
connectivity was severred. The same would apply to your home weather
station. If you're running on battery power but have no way to transmit your
observation, then the same problem applies.

As for lightning, almost all of these stations DO have lightning sensors. A
check of NLDN data across Florida showed no thunderstorm activity associated
with the landfall of Jeanne. Given it's tropical nature, nighttime landfall,
overall weak appearance, and lack of sustained 50 dBZ echoes, I wouldn't
have expected lighthning anyways. The only thunderstorms I saw were
yesterday afternoon just offshore of West Palm, more due to afternoon
heating than anything. These were included in the PBI observations.




"Louis Gentile" wrote in message
m...
discussion.txt
Address:http://www.bluehill.org/discussion.txt Changed:2:43 PM on
Friday, September 24, 2004

The site above is a reminder of the observations of yester-year when a
much better description of weather was regularly available through the
surface observations and the greatest care was taken to avoid the most
trivial mistake. There were instances of updated forecasts due to data
that the trained observer recorded that is not easily detected by
satellite. I checked for observations from central and coastal Florida
over the past 48 hours. No on site lightning detectors at the sites I
checked. Equipment failure before wind gusts reach 60KT. My home
weather station can do better than that and it runs for thirty hours
after power failure - on triple A cells. Power blackouts - with no
back-up generator. How much does it cost to repair or install a
lightning detector? Is our government's debt so severe that we cannot
even afford a workable system and have fallen behind some other
nation's observation systems as a result? In the lower 48, plus
Alaska, I have to go ten, twenty, and thirty years back into the
logbooks in order to retrieve accurate and detailed surface
observations, especially when studying events related to thunderstorm
activity, nor'easters, blizzards and tropical cyclones.

Regards,
Lou


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Just would like to add one comment. Back in my days the power
interruption usually did not result in a total communications failure.
The phones still worked.


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You could have not said it better. It is a joke how these stations
malfunctioned in Florida. During Frances'landfall there were no
surface obs coming in between Daytona Beach and West Palm Beach. That
is a long stretch of real estate with no weather being reported, that
kind of stuff happens in a third world country. That data was need to
save peoples lives and property and some of the same stations went
down in Jeanne, long before any hurricane force winds arrived. What
really floored me was that the Punta Gorda site took a direct hit from
Charley and stayed up, reporting critical wind speed data that was
used to warn the people in Charley's path. Why would one site get
blasted and stay on line when other sites go down with much less wind.
What was the difference between the two reporting sites.

Smerby
www.accuweather.com






"Louis Gentile" wrote in message
m...
discussion.txt
Address:http://www.bluehill.org/discussion.txt Changed:2:43 PM on
Friday, September 24, 2004

The site above is a reminder of the observations of yester-year when a
much better description of weather was regularly available through the
surface observations and the greatest care was taken to avoid the most
trivial mistake. There were instances of updated forecasts due to data
that the trained observer recorded that is not easily detected by
satellite. I checked for observations from central and coastal Florida
over the past 48 hours. No on site lightning detectors at the sites I
checked. Equipment failure before wind gusts reach 60KT. My home
weather station can do better than that and it runs for thirty hours
after power failure - on triple A cells. Power blackouts - with no
back-up generator. How much does it cost to repair or install a
lightning detector? Is our government's debt so severe that we cannot
even afford a workable system and have fallen behind some other
nation's observation systems as a result? In the lower 48, plus
Alaska, I have to go ten, twenty, and thirty years back into the
logbooks in order to retrieve accurate and detailed surface
observations, especially when studying events related to thunderstorm
activity, nor'easters, blizzards and tropical cyclones.

Regards,
Lou


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Just would like to add one comment. Back in my days the power
interruption usually did not result in a total communications failure.
The phones still worked.


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1.) Punta Gorda ASOS did not stay online. It was put out of commission
subsequently after a 109 mph wind gust, some 10-15 minutes before the
strongest winds hit (go back and note the time and surface pressure of that
observation).
2.) How would surface observations have saved lives and property,
considering hurricane warnings had been out for 2 days. This is the most
ridiculous nonsense I've read this week and it's only Thursday. Would the
hurricane go "OH NO I'VE BEEN MEASURED!" and quickly weaken to prevent
further damage? LOL...wouldn't expect anything else out of the "Smerb".

What do you proprose as a solution? If you actually took the time to read
the previous posts, you're realize that the obs are under FAA control now.
When the airport is closed for commercial traffic, they simply don't give a
hoot! Chalk one up for the ol' NWS here where you had dedicated
meteorologists and a true passion for observations and climatology. Thank
Uncle George W for that transition! So, instead of blasting at a poor,
defenseless instrument array full of metal parts, why not contact the local
airport representative(s) and ask them how their power feed and more
importantly their COMMUNICATIONS feed are wired and why they failed in
tropical storm force winds?

Sorry, but Lou's posts seem for more up and up on the intelligence scale.

Tell Uncle Joel and Aunt Barry I said hi!

Papa Smurf

"Smerby" wrote in message
om...
You could have not said it better. It is a joke how these stations
malfunctioned in Florida. During Frances'landfall there were no
surface obs coming in between Daytona Beach and West Palm Beach. That
is a long stretch of real estate with no weather being reported, that
kind of stuff happens in a third world country. That data was need to
save peoples lives and property and some of the same stations went
down in Jeanne, long before any hurricane force winds arrived. What
really floored me was that the Punta Gorda site took a direct hit from
Charley and stayed up, reporting critical wind speed data that was
used to warn the people in Charley's path. Why would one site get
blasted and stay on line when other sites go down with much less wind.
What was the difference between the two reporting sites.

Smerby
www.accuweather.com






"Louis Gentile" wrote in message
m...
discussion.txt
Address:http://www.bluehill.org/discussion.txt Changed:2:43 PM on
Friday, September 24, 2004

The site above is a reminder of the observations of yester-year when
a
much better description of weather was regularly available through
the
surface observations and the greatest care was taken to avoid the
most
trivial mistake. There were instances of updated forecasts due to
data
that the trained observer recorded that is not easily detected by
satellite. I checked for observations from central and coastal
Florida
over the past 48 hours. No on site lightning detectors at the sites
I
checked. Equipment failure before wind gusts reach 60KT. My home
weather station can do better than that and it runs for thirty hours
after power failure - on triple A cells. Power blackouts - with no
back-up generator. How much does it cost to repair or install a
lightning detector? Is our government's debt so severe that we
cannot
even afford a workable system and have fallen behind some other
nation's observation systems as a result? In the lower 48, plus
Alaska, I have to go ten, twenty, and thirty years back into the
logbooks in order to retrieve accurate and detailed surface
observations, especially when studying events related to
thunderstorm
activity, nor'easters, blizzards and tropical cyclones.

Regards,
Lou


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Just would like to add one comment. Back in my days the power
interruption usually did not result in a total communications failure.
The phones still worked.


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(Smerby) wrote in message . com...
You could have not said it better. It is a joke how these stations
malfunctioned in Florida. During Frances'landfall there were no
surface obs coming in between Daytona Beach and West Palm Beach. That
is a long stretch of real estate with no weather being reported, that
kind of stuff happens in a third world country. That data was need to
save peoples lives and property and some of the same stations went
down in Jeanne, long before any hurricane force winds arrived. What
really floored me was that the Punta Gorda site took a direct hit from
Charley and stayed up, reporting critical wind speed data that was
used to warn the people in Charley's path. Why would one site get
blasted and stay on line when other sites go down with much less wind.
What was the difference between the two reporting sites.

Smerby
www.accuweather.com






"Louis Gentile" wrote in message
m...
discussion.txt
Address:http://www.bluehill.org/discussion.txt Changed:2:43 PM on
Friday, September 24, 2004

The site above is a reminder of the observations of yester-year when a
much better description of weather was regularly available through the
surface observations and the greatest care was taken to avoid the most
trivial mistake. There were instances of updated forecasts due to data
that the trained observer recorded that is not easily detected by
satellite. I checked for observations from central and coastal Florida
over the past 48 hours. No on site lightning detectors at the sites I
checked. Equipment failure before wind gusts reach 60KT. My home
weather station can do better than that and it runs for thirty hours
after power failure - on triple A cells. Power blackouts - with no
back-up generator. How much does it cost to repair or install a
lightning detector? Is our government's debt so severe that we cannot
even afford a workable system and have fallen behind some other
nation's observation systems as a result? In the lower 48, plus
Alaska, I have to go ten, twenty, and thirty years back into the
logbooks in order to retrieve accurate and detailed surface
observations, especially when studying events related to thunderstorm
activity, nor'easters, blizzards and tropical cyclones.

Regards,
Lou


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Just would like to add one comment. Back in my days the power
interruption usually did not result in a total communications failure.
The phones still worked.

Thanks, you said it better than I did. However, I do appologize to the
posters in this thread. I failed to mention that this is an FAA
problem. The NWS did a much better job when they were in charge.

Regards,
Lou


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"Meteorologically Disturbed" wrote in message news:BvV6d.147260$D%.2374@attbi_s51...
1.) Punta Gorda ASOS did not stay online. It was put out of commission
subsequently after a 109 mph wind gust, some 10-15 minutes before the
strongest winds hit (go back and note the time and surface pressure of that
observation).

PGD went through an outer and inner eyewall and reported critical
information about what was going to occur as Charley went farther into
the interior of central Florida. Some people like to and need to
specifically know what is coming at them.

2.) How would surface observations have saved lives and property,
considering hurricane warnings had been out for 2 days. This is the most
ridiculous nonsense I've read this week and it's only Thursday. Would the
hurricane go "OH NO I'VE BEEN MEASURED!" and quickly weaken to prevent
further damage? LOL...wouldn't expect anything else out of the "Smerb".

That data was crucial for the Orlando metro area in that before power
went out, the local media warned the residents of a highly populated
region to be prepared for 100+ mph wind gusts, some of the highest
ever recorded at the local airport. If it wasn't for the PGD ob some
people would have ventured out with no respect of the power of
Charley. People depend on continuous updates of the weather, they will
take it in any way shape or form and surface observations are very
crucial. Knowing that 100+ mph damaging winds are coming to your area
would convince some people well inland to be serious about protecting
there lives and property.


What do you proprose as a solution? If you actually took the time
to read
the previous posts, you're realize that the obs are under FAA control now.
When the airport is closed for commercial traffic, they simply don't give a
hoot! Chalk one up for the ol' NWS here where you had dedicated
meteorologists and a true passion for observations and climatology. Thank
Uncle George W for that transition! So, instead of blasting at a poor,
defenseless instrument array full of metal parts, why not contact the local
airport representative(s) and ask them how their power feed and more
importantly their COMMUNICATIONS feed are wired and why they failed in
tropical storm force winds?

Why do some ASOS stations handle hurricane force winds while others
malfunction in TS force winds or even less. Why do some ASOS stations
continue to report after commercial traffic is closed while others
don't. Could it be a lack of simple inexpensive maintenance?

Sorry, but Lou's posts seem for more up and up on the intelligence scale.

Tell Uncle Joel and Aunt Barry I said hi!

Papa Smurf

I'll tell them you said hi, and if you are ever interested in working
at accuweather the door is open.

Smerby
www.accuweather.com


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(Louis Gentile) wrote in message om...
discussion.txt
Address:http://www.bluehill.org/discussion.txt Changed:2:43 PM on
Friday, September 24, 2004

The site above is a reminder of the observations of yester-year when a
much better description of weather was regularly available through the
surface observations and the greatest care was taken to avoid the most
trivial mistake. There were instances of updated forecasts due to data
that the trained observer recorded that is not easily detected by
satellite. I checked for observations from central and coastal Florida
over the past 48 hours. No on site lightning detectors at the sites I
checked. Equipment failure before wind gusts reach 60KT. My home
weather station can do better than that and it runs for thirty hours
after power failure - on triple A cells. Power blackouts - with no
back-up generator. How much does it cost to repair or install a
lightning detector? Is our government's debt so severe that we cannot
even afford a workable system and have fallen behind some other
nation's observation systems as a result? In the lower 48, plus
Alaska, I have to go ten, twenty, and thirty years back into the
logbooks in order to retrieve accurate and detailed surface
observations, especially when studying events related to thunderstorm
activity, nor'easters, blizzards and tropical cyclones.

Regards,
Lou

It is sad that the observations we had years ago are decreasingly
accurate today. Hopefully one day things will be back to the
standards they used to be. At the same time, we should probably
remember the thing's we've gained:

1 - Many more reporting stations, often in rather remote locations.

2 - More reliable reporting schedules... an automated station isn't
going to fall asleep or go home for breakfast...

3 - Increased accuracy in reports, including SLP, temperature, wind,
ceiling (below 12,000 feet), and rainfall...

Of course, there are some things that will take a while to improve,
including:

1 - Snowfall and snow rate.

2 - True sky cover.

3 - Precipitation type.

It will take some advancements in technology to get these items
reported more accurately.

One thing that is dissapointing is that at many airports that formerly
had part-time observers, they are still there but just monitoring the
system. The FAA has a rating system for airports based on observation
quality: (from http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/SWO/appendix_d.htm )

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++

Service Level D

This level of service consists of an ASOS continually measuring the
atmosphere at a point near the runway. The ASOS senses and measures
the weather parameters listed below:
- Wind
- Visibility
- Precipitation/Obstruction to vision
- Cloud height and sky cover
- Temperature and dewpoint
- Altimeter
- Freezing rain capability
- Lightning reporting capability

KSMQ, Someset Airport, Somerville, NJ is an example of Service Level
D.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++

Service Level C

Service Level C consists of all the elements of Service Level D plus
augmentation and backup of the system by a human observer or an air
traffic control specialist on location nearby. The National Air
Traffic Controllers Association (NATCA), the group representing the
interests of the air traffic controllers, and the FAA have agreed that
at this level of service, the air traffic control specialists are
allowed the option of adding operationally significant remarks. Backup
consists of inserting the correct value if the system malfunctions or
is unrepresentative. Augmentation consists of adding the weather
elements listed below, if observed.

- Thunderstorms
- Tornadoes
- Hail
- Virga
- Volcanic ash
- Tower visibility
- Any reportable weather elements considered operationally significant
by the observer

During hours that the observing facility is closed, the site reverts
to Service Level D.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++

Service Level B

Service Level B consists of all the elements of service levels C and D
plus the elements listed below, if observed.

- Longline RVR* at precedented sites (may be instantaneous readout)
- Freezing drizzle versus freezing rain
- Ice pellets
- Snow depth and snow increasing rapidly remarks
- Thunderstorm and lightning location remarks
- Observed significant weather not at the station remarks

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++

Service Level A

Service Level A consists of all the elements of service levels B, C
and D plus the elements listed below, if observed.

- 10 minute longline RVR* at precedented sites or additional
visibility increments of 1/8, 1/16 and 0
- Sector visibility
- Variable sky condition
- Cloud layers above 12,000 feet and cloud types
- Widespread dust, sand and other obscurations
- Volcanic eruptions

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++

Much more information can be found he
http://www.faa.gov/atpubs/SWO/index....0OF%20CONTENTS

=====
Raymond C. Martin, Jr.
Associate Meteorologist, AccuWeather Inc.- http://www.accuweather.com/
New Jersey Expressways and Tollways - http://www.njfreeways.com/
Ray's Winter Storm Archive - http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/

"Meteorologically Disturbed" wrote in message news:liV5d.125744$D%.14979@attbi_s51...
Lou,

While nicely written, Blue Hill's plea for help compares apples to oranges
and overlooks several key facts. Firstly, your home "Davis" or whatever
other station doesn't require much in the way of voltage and can survive
many hours on batteries. The AWOS/ASOS network contains an integrated
network of sensors and electronics, including several high voltage
instruments (ceilometer for one), and most definitely cannot operate on
battery backup. The exception of this is the barometer which is a standalone
unit. Secondly, these surface observations don't forget are owned now by the
FAA and are first and foremost for aviation use. If the airport itself is
closed to traffic, then in all likelihood there's no reason to maintain the
system during a failure.

However, what's most likely the case is that many of the ASOS/AWOS were up
and running and logging data internally just fine, but their dial out
connectivity was severred. The same would apply to your home weather
station. If you're running on battery power but have no way to transmit your
observation, then the same problem applies.

As for lightning, almost all of these stations DO have lightning sensors. A
check of NLDN data across Florida showed no thunderstorm activity associated
with the landfall of Jeanne. Given it's tropical nature, nighttime landfall,
overall weak appearance, and lack of sustained 50 dBZ echoes, I wouldn't
have expected lighthning anyways. The only thunderstorms I saw were
yesterday afternoon just offshore of West Palm, more due to afternoon
heating than anything. These were included in the PBI observations.

All very good points.

Yes, there are higher power equipment in ASOS/AWOS installations which
would probably have difficulty running on batteries. However, what
about a generator?

It is also a good point that many systems probably were not able to
transmit. However, shouldn't there be back-ups for this? I would
think that there would be alternate communication means if the primary
means was unavailable. If TV crews are able to report from within a
hurricane, the ASOS/AWOS stations should be able to report, as well.

Also, granted that many systems do have lightning data fed into them
from the national lightning data network and therefore can detect
thunderstorms. However, there have been many times when I see TSNO in
station obs. It is also maddening that the system automatically
removes the TSNO if the oberver is logged in, even if the observer
isn't augmenting the observations (many level of service C stations).
I have noted this problem at stations many times.

=====
Raymond C. Martin, Jr.
Associate Meteorologist, AccuWeather Inc.- http://www.accuweather.com/
New Jersey Expressways and Tollways - http://www.njfreeways.com/
Ray's Winter Storm Archive - http://www.njfreeways.com/weather/


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