Early one morning a couple of weeks ago we found an ice growth/formation
in a birds' water dish. The whole dish was frozen solid with a flat
surface. IIRC correctly it had been a dry but dampish night.

There was just the one single column of smooth ice about .5cm diameter
and around 3cm tall, on top of which was a formation of ice "petals",
all of them square and .5 to 2cm across. There are no trees or branches
overhanging the spot where this happened so presumably the ice crystals
built up from moisture in the atmosphere? We have a few photos, which
we took just before it disintegrated as the air warmed.

I've never seen anything like this, and I don't suppose I will again.
Presumably the air temperature, humidity et al have to be precisely at
the right point for this to construct itself?

A peaceful New Year to everybody.

Susie
Isle of Arran




--
Susie Thompson
To reply by e-mail replace "deadspam.com" with "roddin.co.uk"

Susie wrote in message
...
Early one morning a couple of weeks ago we found an ice growth/formation
in a birds' water dish. The whole dish was frozen solid with a flat
surface. IIRC correctly it had been a dry but dampish night.

There was just the one single column of smooth ice about .5cm diameter
and around 3cm tall, on top of which was a formation of ice "petals",
all of them square and .5 to 2cm across. There are no trees or branches
overhanging the spot where this happened so presumably the ice crystals
built up from moisture in the atmosphere? We have a few photos, which
we took just before it disintegrated as the air warmed.

I've never seen anything like this, and I don't suppose I will again.
Presumably the air temperature, humidity et al have to be precisely at
the right point for this to construct itself?

A peaceful New Year to everybody.

Susie
Isle of Arran




--
Susie Thompson
To reply by e-mail replace "deadspam.com" with "roddin.co.uk"


Pool freezing from outside to centre and ice expanding so free water pushed
up through the last remaining central hole until all frozen ?

I'm old enough to have seen all those doorstep milkbottles with caps
standing an inch or more above the bottle rims in 1962/3 winter


--
General electronic repairs, other than TVs and PCs
http://www.divdev.fsnet.co.uk/repairs.htm

Diverse Devices, Southampton, England

"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
I'm old enough to have seen all those doorstep milkbottles with caps
standing an inch or more above the bottle rims in 1962/3 winter


Along with the pecked holes through the top - the birds being so desperate
for liquid...

Phil

N_Cook wrote:

Pool freezing from outside to centre and ice expanding so free water pushed
up through the last remaining central hole until all frozen ?

This is correct. You can achieve a similar thing using distilled water
in an ice cube tray in a normal kitchen freezer. The water has to be
quite pure (or you have to be quite lucky) as impurities in the water
can block up the "growth".

There was something in New Scientist about this some time in the last
year or two!

Jonathan

Jonathan Stott wrote:
N_Cook wrote:

Pool freezing from outside to centre and ice expanding so free water
pushed up through the last remaining central hole until all frozen ?

This is correct. You can achieve a similar thing using distilled water
in an ice cube tray in a normal kitchen freezer. The water has to be
quite pure (or you have to be quite lucky) as impurities in the water
can block up the "growth".

There was something in New Scientist about this some time in the last
year or two!

Jonathan

Just read about this in New Scientist's book of experiments "How to
Fossilise your Hamster". Ice forms in the cracks and fissures of the
container first and then grows into the middle, forms a thin skin closing
inwards on the surface. The last little hole in the centre allows for water
to "erupt" out of the hole as the ice expands below forming a tube at first
and then solidifying. All takes about 10 mins... which seems pretty quick to
me.

They mentioned only ice spikes being formed this way, would love to see the
pictures of the petals!

Vb

Quoting from message
posted on 2 Jan 2009 by N_Cook
I would like to add:

I'm old enough to have seen all those doorstep milkbottles with caps
standing an inch or more above the bottle rims in 1962/3 winter

At what temp would this occur?

I forgot to bring the milk in on Wednesday until late afternoon and,
because we are 600ft asl on a NW slope there'd been no sun and well
below freezing temps all day - I expected the lid to be pushed up but
it wasn't.

--
..ElaineJ. Briallen Traditional Crafts at http://www.briallen.co.uk
..Virtual. Corn Dollies, Handmade Felt, Coasters, Handmade Soap
StrongArm Jones' Pages at http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/ejones
..RISC PC. Corwen, North Wales; Steam Traction;CMMGB&Yukon Volunteers.

Elaine Jones wrote in message
...
Quoting from message
posted on 2 Jan 2009 by N_Cook
I would like to add:

I'm old enough to have seen all those doorstep milkbottles with caps
standing an inch or more above the bottle rims in 1962/3 winter

At what temp would this occur?

I forgot to bring the milk in on Wednesday until late afternoon and,
because we are 600ft asl on a NW slope there'd been no sun and well
below freezing temps all day - I expected the lid to be pushed up but
it wasn't.

--
.ElaineJ. Briallen Traditional Crafts at http://www.briallen.co.uk
.Virtual. Corn Dollies, Handmade Felt, Coasters, Handmade Soap
StrongArm Jones' Pages at http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/ejones
.RISC PC. Corwen, North Wales; Steam Traction;CMMGB&Yukon Volunteers.


Whatever the coldest overnight temperatures were over the early 1960s, I
don't have the data. Cold enough for sea-water to freeze at Weymouth,
Broadstairs etc

It would have been full-cream milk only in those days which may be relevant.

--
General electronic repairs, other than TVs and PCs
http://www.divdev.fsnet.co.uk/repairs.htm

Diverse Devices, Southampton, England

Elaine Jones wrote in message
...
Quoting from message
posted on 2 Jan 2009 by N_Cook
I would like to add:

I'm old enough to have seen all those doorstep milkbottles with caps
standing an inch or more above the bottle rims in 1962/3 winter

At what temp would this occur?

I forgot to bring the milk in on Wednesday until late afternoon and,
because we are 600ft asl on a NW slope there'd been no sun and well
below freezing temps all day - I expected the lid to be pushed up but
it wasn't.

--
.ElaineJ. Briallen Traditional Crafts at http://www.briallen.co.uk
.Virtual. Corn Dollies, Handmade Felt, Coasters, Handmade Soap
StrongArm Jones' Pages at http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/ejones
.RISC PC. Corwen, North Wales; Steam Traction;CMMGB&Yukon Volunteers.


Someone's pic, taken in London at that time
http://viewfinder.english-heritage.o...0/AA072831.jpg


--
General electronic repairs, other than TVs and PCs
http://www.divdev.fsnet.co.uk/repairs.htm

Diverse Devices, Southampton, England

In article ,
N_Cook writes:
Elaine Jones wrote in message
...
Quoting from message
posted on 2 Jan 2009 by N_Cook
I would like to add:

I'm old enough to have seen all those doorstep milkbottles with caps
standing an inch or more above the bottle rims in 1962/3 winter

At what temp would this occur?

I forgot to bring the milk in on Wednesday until late afternoon and,
because we are 600ft asl on a NW slope there'd been no sun and well
below freezing temps all day - I expected the lid to be pushed up but
it wasn't.


Whatever the coldest overnight temperatures were over the early 1960s, I
don't have the data. Cold enough for sea-water to freeze at Weymouth,
Broadstairs etc

I can remember a couple of mornings when I was at junior school when the
school milk had ice on top. That was probably in February, 1956.

It would have been full-cream milk only in those days which may be relevant.

Yes, presumably the creaminess of the milk would affect the freezing
point.
--
John Hall
"It is a very sad thing that nowadays there is so little useless
information."
Oscar Wilde (1854-1900)

On Sat, 3 Jan 2009 08:46:33 -0000, N_Cook wrote:

It would have been full-cream milk only in those days which may be
relevant.

And not homogenised either. Noticed how the full-cream milk doesn't settle
out into cream and milk these days?

--
Cheers
Dave.