http://hadobs.metoffice.com/hadcet/cetml1659on.dat
shows a figure of -0.7C.

http://hadobs.metoffice.com/hadcet/cet_info_mean.html
shows a figure of -0.4C (provisional to 30th December)

Both are from Met Office pages concerning the Hadley
Centre. So why the disparity, especially considering that
the -0.4C value is only up to the 30th and one might
expect the figue for the enitre month to be even higher?
--
Col

Bolton, Lancashire
160m asl

In message , Col
writes
http://hadobs.metoffice.com/hadcet/cetml1659on.dat
shows a figure of -0.7C.

http://hadobs.metoffice.com/hadcet/cet_info_mean.html
shows a figure of -0.4C (provisional to 30th December)

Both are from Met Office pages concerning the Hadley
Centre. So why the disparity, especially considering that
the -0.4C value is only up to the 30th and one might
expect the figue for the enitre month to be even higher?


Oh, dear.

It must be a pain for them being so exposed - sorry, open - and having
the question asked - how about rounding errors being corrected with a
more precise calculation?
--
Peter Thomas

On Jan 1, 2:59*pm, Peter Thomas
wrote:
In message , Col
writes

http://hadobs.metoffice.com/hadcet/cetml1659on.dat
shows a figure of -0.7C.

http://hadobs.metoffice.com/hadcet/cet_info_mean.html
shows a figure of -0.4C (provisional to 30th December)

Both are from Met Office pages concerning the Hadley
Centre. So why the disparity, especially considering that
the -0.4C value is only up to the 30th and one might
expect the figue for the enitre month to be even higher?

Oh, dear.

It must be a pain for them being so exposed - sorry, open - and having
the question asked - how about rounding errors being corrected with a
more precise calculation?
--
Peter Thomas

There is no need for such a sarcastic reply.

I was merely asking why there was such a large difference in values
posted on two different Met Office Hadley Centre sites.
And 'rounding errors' giving a 0.3C difference, how likely is that?

Bloody hell, I'm sorry I asked....

Col

In article ,
Col writes:
http://hadobs.metoffice.com/hadcet/cetml1659on.dat
shows a figure of -0.7C.

http://hadobs.metoffice.com/hadcet/cet_info_mean.html
shows a figure of -0.4C (provisional to 30th December)

Both are from Met Office pages concerning the Hadley
Centre. So why the disparity, especially considering that
the -0.4C value is only up to the 30th and one might
expect the figue for the enitre month to be even higher?

Good question.

Philip Eden's CET figure for the whole month, using different stations
to the Met Office that he claims are more consistent with those that
Manley used, is now on his website: -0.5C.

http://www.climate-uk.com/

This makes it the first sub-zero month since February, 1986 as well as
the coldest month since then. It is also the coldest December since 1890
and the first sub-zero December since then. The 7 sub-zero Decembers:

1890 -0.8
2010 -0.5
1676 -0.5
1788 -0.3
1796 -0.3
1878 -0.3
1874 -0.2

We can't tell whether or not Dec 2010 was colder than Dec 1676, since
the 1676 figure is only given to the nearest half-degree. So it was
either the second or third coldest December since the CET series began
in 1659, quite remarkable when you think that recent decades have in
general been the warmest in the whole series.

The CET for the whole year comes out at 8.9C, the coldest since 1986
which was 8.8C. It was the third coldest year within the last forty,
1979 also marginally beating it. Since 1994, only two other years have
had a CET less than 10C, never mind less than 9, and only 1996
approaches 2010 for cold with 9.2C (rounded up to one decimal place).
--
John Hall
"I look upon it, that he who does not mind his belly,
will hardly mind anything else."
Dr Samuel Johnson (1709-84)

In article ,
Col writes:
http://hadobs.metoffice.com/hadcet/cetml1659on.dat
shows a figure of -0.7C.

http://hadobs.metoffice.com/hadcet/cet_info_mean.html
shows a figure of -0.4C (provisional to 30th December)

Both are from Met Office pages concerning the Hadley
Centre. So why the disparity, especially considering that
the -0.4C value is only up to the 30th and one might
expect the figue for the enitre month to be even higher?

I'd guess that the first one isn't updated as often as the second, and
probably hadn't been updated since the 28th or 29th rather than being
for the entire month.
--
John Hall
"I look upon it, that he who does not mind his belly,
will hardly mind anything else."
Dr Samuel Johnson (1709-84)

Would you say the December figure is historic John? :-)

Will
--

In article ,
Will Hand writes:
Would you say the December figure is historic John? :-)

Will

I think I'd have to.
--
John Hall
"I look upon it, that he who does not mind his belly,
will hardly mind anything else."
Dr Samuel Johnson (1709-84)

In message
, Col
writes
On Jan 1, 2:59*pm, Peter Thomas
wrote:
In message , Col
writes

http://hadobs.metoffice.com/hadcet/cetml1659on.dat
shows a figure of -0.7C.

http://hadobs.metoffice.com/hadcet/cet_info_mean.html
shows a figure of -0.4C (provisional to 30th December)

Both are from Met Office pages concerning the Hadley
Centre. So why the disparity, especially considering that
the -0.4C value is only up to the 30th and one might
expect the figue for the enitre month to be even higher?

Oh, dear.

It must be a pain for them being so exposed - sorry, open - and having
the question asked - how about rounding errors being corrected with a
more precise calculation?
--
Peter Thomas

There is no need for such a sarcastic reply.

I was merely asking why there was such a large difference in values
posted on two different Met Office Hadley Centre sites.
And 'rounding errors' giving a 0.3C difference, how likely is that?

Bloody hell, I'm sorry I asked....

Oh, dear, Col- wasn't intended as sarcastic. Was a genuine point that
the more data you put in front of the public, the greater the chance of
eagle eyes spotting the glitches.

My experience - in quite another field - of trying to produce one
statistic from many is that unexpected differences do creep in. Sounds a
bit large for rounding, granted.

Sod's law tends to apply when reporting largish volumes of data. As with
any human endeavour.

John Hall's guess on delay in updating sounds very credible -
particularly over a public holiday.

--
Peter Thomas

On Jan 1, 11:29*pm, Peter Thomas
wrote:
In message
, Col
writes



On Jan 1, 2:59 pm, Peter Thomas
wrote:
In message , Col
writes

http://hadobs.metoffice.com/hadcet/cetml1659on.dat
shows a figure of -0.7C.

http://hadobs.metoffice.com/hadcet/cet_info_mean.html
shows a figure of -0.4C (provisional to 30th December)

Both are from Met Office pages concerning the Hadley
Centre. So why the disparity, especially considering that
the -0.4C value is only up to the 30th and one might
expect the figue for the enitre month to be even higher?

Oh, dear.

It must be a pain for them being so exposed - sorry, open - and having
the question asked - how about rounding errors being corrected with a
more precise calculation?
--
Peter Thomas

There is no need for such a sarcastic reply.

I was merely asking why there was such a large difference in values
posted on two different Met Office Hadley Centre sites.
And 'rounding errors' giving a 0.3C difference, how likely is that?

Bloody hell, I'm sorry I asked....

Oh, dear, Col- wasn't intended as sarcastic. Was a genuine point that
the more data you put in front of the public, the greater the chance of
eagle eyes spotting the glitches.

Well OK, but it certainly sounded as if you thought I was criticising
them for the difference, which certainly wasn't the case.

My experience - in quite another field - of trying to produce one
statistic from many is that unexpected differences do creep in. Sounds a
bit large for rounding, granted.

Sod's law tends to apply when reporting largish volumes of data. As with
any human endeavour.

John Hall's guess on delay in updating sounds very credible -
particularly over a public holiday.

That would seem reaonable however the page the -0.7C figure is on
wasn't
a 'running figure' with updates over the course of the month, there
was no
value there at all until yesterday. So it would seem strange to enter
a
figure you knew to be wrong, rather than just have something there
that
hadn't yet been updated.

Anyway it will be interesting to see if it gets changed.

Col

On Sat, 1 Jan 2011 at 19:06:26, John Hall
wrote in uk.sci.weather :

The CET for the whole year comes out at 8.9C, the coldest since 1986
which was 8.8C. It was the third coldest year within the last forty,
1979 also marginally beating it.

If this is 'global warming', then I like it...
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham (change 'invalid83261' to 'blueyonder' to email me)