Graham P Davis wrote:
On 30/11/11 16:53, Dave Cornwell wrote:
Graham P Davis wrote:
On 30/11/11 15:54, Eskimo Will wrote:
Perfect weather for a strike and for picket line duty!
Sun, and temperature around 10C.

Great turnout at Exeter City Centre rally with just under 4000 union
folk and families/supporters on the rally with all unions represented
including mine - PROSPECT www.prospect.org.uk . Many met Office
colleagues were with us too fighting for a fair *negotiated* pension
settlement, not a government imposed one. First strike in the Met
Office
for over 30 years.

Red Will :-)

The one and only time I was on picket duty, I got a sunburnt nose. I
was Red Graham! ;-)

Whist I was on duty, A Roller crawled past in heavy traffic and a
bloated plutocrat in the back harrumphed, "why don't you go and do
some work?" The heavy traffic was because it was race day at Ascot and
he was off to the races.

A few years after I joined the Office, I realised that the
final-salary pension scheme was iniquitous and a scheme based on
average earnings throughout one's working life would be fairer. I also
realised that a so-called non-contributory scheme was going to serve
us ill and should be replaced by one that where contributions were in
the open and not removed from us during salary comparison exercises.
Chickens have finally come home to roost.

---------------------------
How do you factorise average earnings to take inflation into account?
For example my £750 per annum starting salary would be approximately
£18K to someone starting the same job today. Surely if a scheme wants to
pay out less it would be more straight forward to make it say, a 30/80th
scheme instead of a 40/80th based on final salary.
Dave
Dave

I don't see what the problem is with producing an average salary
corrected for inflation, especially since you've just done it with your
example.

The idea I had was not to pay less but to give a fair payment.
Final-salary schemes are too open to chicanery. For example, someone
works shifts almost all their working life but then the strain tells on
their health and they are limited to day work for the last few years.
Another person starts their working life with a note from their doctor
saying they can't work shifts. A few years away from retirement and they
stage a miraculous recovery and work shifts for the last year or so. If
their basic salary was £30,000 each, say, the first would retire on
£15,000 and the skiver would have about £21,000. Under my system, the
balance would be reversed. [The calculations are based on old ideas of
shift pay and may not hold true now.]

-----------------
Sounds like you knew someone in the skiver category! But seriously, it
is quite complicated to get it fair. I agree that would be wrong but
what about the person who started on a very low salary but worked hard
or maybe studied when his family was grown up, got promotions later in
life but had a very stressfull job till he retired. He would get a much
lower (than deserved?) pension. (That's not me, quite ;-)
It is tricky.

Dave

On Nov 30, 3:54*pm, "Eskimo Will" wrote:
Perfect weather for a strike and for picket line duty!
Sun, and temperature around 10C.

Great turnout at Exeter City Centre rally with just under 4000 union folk
and families/supporters on the rally with all unions represented including
mine - PROSPECTwww.prospect.org.uk. Many met Office colleagues were with
us too fighting for a fair *negotiated* pension settlement, not a government
imposed one. First strike in the Met Office for over 30 years.

Red Will :-)
--

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Good on you Will.

I heard some ****t on Radio 5 Live last night, someone from some
Institute of Economics if I remember rightly, say public sector
workers should not expect any special treatment because they have not
shown any improvement on productivity. Good lord! Quite the opposite.
We have a bit of a problem because we are livng longer. This is thanks
to improvements in medical science and medical care.
Well done NHS and medical research institutes.
And what about weather forecasting? Quite a few improvements here.
Well done UKMO on the sharp end, and other academic research
establishments.

We all know the problem we are in is due to an appalling gambling
culture in the financial industries, and shocking government from
Thatcher and Lawson, Blair and Brown, and now Cameron and Clegg
who see the public sector as the soft and easy target. Too difficult
to go after the bankers and tax evaders.

I dispair. If only the country was run by scientists and not career
politicians.

Some hope!

Len (not OT)

Len Wood wrote:
On Nov 30, 3:54 pm, "Eskimo Will" wrote:
Perfect weather for a strike and for picket line duty!
Sun, and temperature around 10C.

Great turnout at Exeter City Centre rally with just under 4000 union folk
and families/supporters on the rally with all unions represented including
mine - PROSPECTwww.prospect.org.uk. Many met Office colleagues were with
us too fighting for a fair *negotiated* pension settlement, not a government
imposed one. First strike in the Met Office for over 30 years.

Red Will :-)
--

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Good on you Will.

I heard some ****t on Radio 5 Live last night, someone from some
Institute of Economics if I remember rightly, say public sector
workers should not expect any special treatment because they have not
shown any improvement on productivity. Good lord! Quite the opposite.
We have a bit of a problem because we are livng longer. This is thanks
to improvements in medical science and medical care.
Well done NHS and medical research institutes.
And what about weather forecasting? Quite a few improvements here.
Well done UKMO on the sharp end, and other academic research
establishments.

We all know the problem we are in is due to an appalling gambling
culture in the financial industries, and shocking government from
Thatcher and Lawson, Blair and Brown, and now Cameron and Clegg
who see the public sector as the soft and easy target. Too difficult
to go after the bankers and tax evaders.

I dispair. If only the country was run by scientists and not career
politicians.

Some hope!

Len (not OT)
--------------
You are so often right Len - I vote for you as PM!
Dave

"Len Wood" wrote in message
...
On Nov 30, 3:54 pm, "Eskimo Will" wrote:
I dispair. If only the country was run by scientists and not career
politicians.

Some hope!

One day Len, maybe one day.
You know if things truly go tits up in the economy things will *have* to
change.

Bring on the revolution :-)

Will
--

On 30/11/11 18:30, Les Hemmings wrote:
Eskimo Will wrote:

It's not a race to the bottom Col.

Pay where I work has always been below median of comparable private
sector which we have accepted given the good pensions to make up the
shortfall. Now the government want to impose another real terms pay
cut over and above the pay freeze *and* cut our pension too as well
as asking us to pay more and work longer. My union and other unions
can try and do something about it and we are and will. I'm sorry that
you are not in the same position but that doesn't mean that we should
be clobbered unfairly as well if we can do something about it.

Will

Exactly Will! Bring up the private sector pensions to be inline with the
public! Not the other way around! Ever looked into MP's pensions?

L


There isn't any money.

On 30/11/11 21:01, Len Wood wrote:
On Nov 30, 3:54 pm, "Eskimo wrote:
Perfect weather for a strike and for picket line duty!
Sun, and temperature around 10C.

Great turnout at Exeter City Centre rally with just under 4000 union folk
and families/supporters on the rally with all unions represented including
mine - PROSPECTwww.prospect.org.uk. Many met Office colleagues were with
us too fighting for a fair *negotiated* pension settlement, not a government
imposed one. First strike in the Met Office for over 30 years.

Red Will :-)
--

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Good on you Will.

I heard some ****t on Radio 5 Live last night, someone from some
Institute of Economics if I remember rightly, say public sector
workers should not expect any special treatment because they have not
shown any improvement on productivity. Good lord! Quite the opposite.
We have a bit of a problem because we are livng longer. This is thanks
to improvements in medical science and medical care.
Well done NHS and medical research institutes.
And what about weather forecasting? Quite a few improvements here.
Well done UKMO on the sharp end, and other academic research
establishments.

We all know the problem we are in is due to an appalling gambling
culture in the financial industries, and shocking government from
Thatcher and Lawson, Blair and Brown, and now Cameron and Clegg
who see the public sector as the soft and easy target. Too difficult
to go after the bankers and tax evaders.

I dispair. If only the country was run by scientists and not career
politicians.

Some hope!

Len (not OT)

I would agree that it is abhorrent that those responsible for this
economic mess are not being held accountable for their actions, but how
exactly do you go after the bankers and tax evaders? If you try and
touch them all they have to do is up sticks and leave, and take their
wealth with them.

Having said that if public sector pension schemes are unsustainable in
the long term then they will have to come to an end at some point, as
with anything that is unsustainable.

In message , Eskimo Will
writes

"Len Wood" wrote in message
...
On Nov 30, 3:54 pm, "Eskimo Will" wrote:
I dispair. If only the country was run by scientists and not career
politicians.

Some hope!

One day Len, maybe one day.
You know if things truly go tits up in the economy things will *have*
to change.

Bring on the revolution :-)

Will
--


Sadly you have no idea what a revolution would bring Will do you? -
don't you think folk have seen enough anarchy?

Not sure why you started this thread in this news group either.

No cheers

James

--
James Brown

Andy wrote:

I also know people in the private sector who had their pensions raided
but you have to blame the company directors and the government
(Conservative I believe) for allowing pension pots to be plundered or
at best to go on pension contribution holidays ...

Pension contribution holidays were quite common several years ago, when
rapidly-rising stock markets caused persion funds to become hugely in
surplus - I seem to remember that on some occasions companies were obliged
to instigate a "holiday" as otherwise contributions would reduce corporation
tax payable to the government. It was also not unknown in Industry for
employees to be given a contribution holiday (in a defined benefit scheme of
course).

The most infamous pension fund plunderer was of course a former Labour MP.

Roger

Len Wood wrote:

I dispair. If only the country was run by scientists and not career
politicians.

Some hope!

Len (not OT)

"Technocrats" seems to be the current buzzword - as pertaining to Greece and
Italy at least.

Roger

On Nov 30, 10:56*pm, Adam Lea wrote:
On 30/11/11 21:01, Len Wood wrote:





On Nov 30, 3:54 pm, "Eskimo *wrote:
Perfect weather for a strike and for picket line duty!
Sun, and temperature around 10C.

Great turnout at Exeter City Centre rally with just under 4000 union folk
and families/supporters on the rally with all unions represented including
mine - PROSPECTwww.prospect.org.uk. Many met Office colleagues were with
us too fighting for a fair *negotiated* pension settlement, not a government
imposed one. First strike in the Met Office for over 30 years.

Red Will :-)
--

--------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------
Good on you Will.

I heard some ****t on Radio 5 Live last night, someone from some
Institute of Economics if I remember rightly, say public sector
workers should not expect any special treatment because they have not
shown any improvement on productivity. Good lord! Quite the opposite.
We have a bit of a problem because we are livng longer. This is thanks
to improvements in medical science and medical care.
Well done NHS and medical research institutes.
And what about weather forecasting? Quite a few improvements here.
Well done UKMO on the sharp end, and other academic research
establishments.

We all know the problem we are in is due to an appalling gambling
culture in the financial industries, and shocking government from
Thatcher and Lawson, Blair and Brown, and now Cameron and Clegg
who see the public sector as the soft and easy target. Too difficult
to go after the bankers and tax evaders.

I dispair. If only the country was run by scientists and not career
politicians.

Some hope!

Len (not OT)

I would agree that it is abhorrent that those responsible for this
economic mess are not being held accountable for their actions, but how
exactly do you go after the bankers and tax evaders? If you try and
touch them all they have to do is up sticks and leave, and take their
wealth with them.

Having said that if public sector pension schemes are unsustainable in
the long term then they will have to come to an end at some point, as
with anything that is unsustainable.

But is it unsustainable? I mean how many central banks are now just
printing money out of thin air? "We've run out of money! Oh well we'll
just print some more. After all it's just figures and noughts on a
computer these days..."