This is the fifth sunny dry day in a row in mid-Devon but it's not an Indian Summer, because according to the BBC Weather presenters "Indian summers don't occur in September", and I've heard that a couple of times today on the BBC.

I totally disagree with this notion, there are no rules to say that a prolonged spell of dry, sunny and mild spell of weather can't be classified as an Indian Summer - obviously it has to happen after the Summer (otherwise it would be an Indian Summer:-)) has ended i.e. in Autumn - so why only in October or November?

It's only a few week ago that the BBC presenters were announcing the fact that 'meteorological autumn' had started on the 1st of September, so using their rules on what constitutes the beginning and end of seasons, Indian Summers could start even before the equinox.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_summer
https://xmetman.wordpress.com/2014/0...-wives-summer/

"xmetman" wrote in message
...
This is the fifth sunny dry day in a row in mid-Devon but it's not an Indian
Summer, because according to the BBC Weather presenters "Indian summers
don't occur in September", and I've heard that a couple of times today on
the BBC.

I totally disagree with this notion, there are no rules to say that a
prolonged spell of dry, sunny and mild spell of weather can't be classified
as an Indian Summer - obviously it has to happen after the Summer (otherwise
it would be an Indian Summer:-)) has ended i.e. in Autumn - so why only in
October or November?

It's only a few week ago that the BBC presenters were announcing the fact
that 'meteorological autumn' had started on the 1st of September, so using
their rules on what constitutes the beginning and end of seasons, Indian
Summers could start even before the equinox.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_summer
https://xmetman.wordpress.com/2014/0...-wives-summer/
==========================

Who cares, I don't. It is a spell of fine, warm and settled weather at a
time of year when such spells are not that unusual. Whether it is to be
given a name is by the by. I get asked this frequently and my reply is
normally along the lines of, "just enjoy it"!!!

Anyway up here on Dartmoor summer does not end until last week of September
which is our driest month in the 21st Century by a long way.

Will
--
http://www.lyneside.demon.co.uk/Hayt...antage_Pro.htm
Will Hand (Haytor, Devon, 1017 feet asl)
---------------------------------------------

On Tuesday, September 29, 2015 at 9:14:43 AM UTC-4, xmetman wrote:
This is the fifth sunny dry day in a row in mid-Devon but it's not an Indian Summer, because according to the BBC Weather presenters "Indian summers don't occur in September", and I've heard that a couple of times today on the BBC.


=========

They would be wrong. It's not dependent on month but rather, strictly speaking, a fine and warmer period after the first killing frost. However, it is a term borrowed from North America (New England, specifically); and perhaps we should return to the notions of Old Wives' summer, St. Luke's summer and St. Martin's summer - the latter two of which are date dependent (October and November respectively).

The AMS glossary summarizes Indian summer thus:

"A period, in mid- or late autumn, of abnormally warm weather, generally clear skies, sunny but hazy days, and cool nights.

In New England, at least one killing frost and preferably a substantial period of normally cool weather must precede this warm spell in order for it to be considered a true "Indian summer." It does not occur every year, and in some years there may be two or three Indian summers. The term is most often heard in the northeastern United States, but its usage extends throughout English- speaking countries. It dates back at least to 1778, but its origin is not certain; the most probable suggestions relate it to the way that the American Indians availed themselves of this extra opportunity to increase their winter stores.

The comparable period in Europe is termed the Old Wives' summer, and, poetically, may be referred to as halcyon days. In England, dependent upon dates of occurrence, such a period may be called St. Martin's summer, St. Luke's summer, and formerly All-hallown summer."

On Tuesday, September 29, 2015 at 9:14:43 AM UTC-4, xmetman wrote:
This is the fifth sunny dry day in a row in mid-Devon but it's not an Indian Summer, because according to the BBC Weather presenters "Indian summers don't occur in September", and I've heard that a couple of times today on the BBC.

I totally disagree with this notion, there are no rules to say that a prolonged spell of dry, sunny and mild spell of weather can't be classified as an Indian Summer - obviously it has to happen after the Summer (otherwise it would be an Indian Summer:-)) has ended i.e. in Autumn - so why only in October or November?

It's only a few week ago that the BBC presenters were announcing the fact that 'meteorological autumn' had started on the 1st of September, so using their rules on what constitutes the beginning and end of seasons, Indian Summers could start even before the equinox.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_summer
https://xmetman.wordpress.com/2014/0...-wives-summer/

=========

Apologies: I missed the link to Old Wives' summer.

Stephen.

On Tuesday, September 29, 2015 at 2:14:43 PM UTC+1, xmetman wrote:
This is the fifth sunny dry day in a row in mid-Devon but it's not an Indian Summer, because according to the BBC Weather presenters "Indian summers don't occur in September", and I've heard that a couple of times today on the BBC.

I totally disagree with this notion, there are no rules to say that a prolonged spell of dry, sunny and mild spell of weather can't be classified as an Indian Summer - obviously it has to happen after the Summer (otherwise it would be an Indian Summer:-)) has ended i.e. in Autumn - so why only in October or November?

It's only a few week ago that the BBC presenters were announcing the fact that 'meteorological autumn' had started on the 1st of September, so using their rules on what constitutes the beginning and end of seasons, Indian Summers could start even before the equinox.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_summer
https://xmetman.wordpress.com/2014/0...-wives-summer/

My understanding is the phrase relates to the dry Indian post monsoon period, i.e. October/early November. September is still very much a monsoon month.

Still a very pleasant spell of weather, watever it's called.

Graham
Penzance

On Tuesday, September 29, 2015 at 4:51:03 PM UTC+1, Graham Easterling wrote:
On Tuesday, September 29, 2015 at 2:14:43 PM UTC+1, xmetman wrote:
This is the fifth sunny dry day in a row in mid-Devon but it's not an Indian Summer, because according to the BBC Weather presenters "Indian summers don't occur in September", and I've heard that a couple of times today on the BBC.

I totally disagree with this notion, there are no rules to say that a prolonged spell of dry, sunny and mild spell of weather can't be classified as an Indian Summer - obviously it has to happen after the Summer (otherwise it would be an Indian Summer:-)) has ended i.e. in Autumn - so why only in October or November?

It's only a few week ago that the BBC presenters were announcing the fact that 'meteorological autumn' had started on the 1st of September, so using their rules on what constitutes the beginning and end of seasons, Indian Summers could start even before the equinox.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_summer
https://xmetman.wordpress.com/2014/0...-wives-summer/

My understanding is the phrase relates to the dry Indian post monsoon period, i.e. October/early November. September is still very much a monsoon month.

Still a very pleasant spell of weather, watever it's called.

Graham
Penzance

Though going by what Stephen say, just read it & it seems pretty convincing,
I'm wrong!

Graham
Penzance

On Tuesday, 29 September 2015 16:32:30 UTC+1, Stephen Davenport wrote:
On Tuesday, September 29, 2015 at 9:14:43 AM UTC-4, xmetman wrote:
This is the fifth sunny dry day in a row in mid-Devon but it's not an Indian Summer, because according to the BBC Weather presenters "Indian summers don't occur in September", and I've heard that a couple of times today on the BBC.


=========

They would be wrong. It's not dependent on month but rather, strictly speaking, a fine and warmer period after the first killing frost. However, it is a term borrowed from North America (New England, specifically); and perhaps we should return to the notions of Old Wives' summer, St. Luke's summer and St. Martin's summer - the latter two of which are date dependent (October and November respectively).

The AMS glossary summarizes Indian summer thus:

"A period, in mid- or late autumn, of abnormally warm weather, generally clear skies, sunny but hazy days, and cool nights.

In New England, at least one killing frost and preferably a substantial period of normally cool weather must precede this warm spell in order for it to be considered a true "Indian summer." It does not occur every year, and in some years there may be two or three Indian summers. The term is most often heard in the northeastern United States, but its usage extends throughout English- speaking countries. It dates back at least to 1778, but its origin is not certain; the most probable suggestions relate it to the way that the American Indians availed themselves of this extra opportunity to increase their winter stores.

The comparable period in Europe is termed the Old Wives' summer, and, poetically, may be referred to as halcyon days. In England, dependent upon dates of occurrence, such a period may be called St. Martin's summer, St. Luke's summer, and formerly All-hallown summer."

That's what I understand it by. We've had a couple of cold nights - but nothing approaching a frost. An 'Indian summer' is most likely in November down here...

--

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On Tuesday, 29 September 2015 17:36:33 UTC+1, Scott W wrote:
On Tuesday, 29 September 2015 16:32:30 UTC+1, Stephen Davenport wrote:
On Tuesday, September 29, 2015 at 9:14:43 AM UTC-4, xmetman wrote:
This is the fifth sunny dry day in a row in mid-Devon but it's not an Indian Summer, because according to the BBC Weather presenters "Indian summers don't occur in September", and I've heard that a couple of times today on the BBC.


=========

They would be wrong. It's not dependent on month but rather, strictly speaking, a fine and warmer period after the first killing frost. However, it is a term borrowed from North America (New England, specifically); and perhaps we should return to the notions of Old Wives' summer, St. Luke's summer and St. Martin's summer - the latter two of which are date dependent (October and November respectively).

The AMS glossary summarizes Indian summer thus:

"A period, in mid- or late autumn, of abnormally warm weather, generally clear skies, sunny but hazy days, and cool nights.

In New England, at least one killing frost and preferably a substantial period of normally cool weather must precede this warm spell in order for it to be considered a true "Indian summer." It does not occur every year, and in some years there may be two or three Indian summers. The term is most often heard in the northeastern United States, but its usage extends throughout English- speaking countries. It dates back at least to 1778, but its origin is not certain; the most probable suggestions relate it to the way that the American Indians availed themselves of this extra opportunity to increase their winter stores.

The comparable period in Europe is termed the Old Wives' summer, and, poetically, may be referred to as halcyon days. In England, dependent upon dates of occurrence, such a period may be called St. Martin's summer, St. Luke's summer, and formerly All-hallown summer."

That's what I understand it by. We've had a couple of cold nights - but nothing approaching a frost. An 'Indian summer' is most likely in November down here...

--

------------------------------
This email was sent by a company owned by Pearson plc, registered office at
80 Strand, London WC2R 0RL. Registered in England and Wales with company
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You are guaranteed an Indian summer in autumn after a couple of hot curries,
for example a vindaloo.
Try it.

Len
Wembury

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Tue, 29 Sep 2015 08:50:59 -0700 (PDT)
Graham Easterling wrote:


My understanding is the phrase relates to the dry Indian post monsoon
period, i.e. October/early November. September is still very much a
monsoon month.

Strictly speaking, I suppose it should now be called a Native American
Summer. ;-)


--
Graham P Davis, Bracknell, Berks. [Retd meteorologist/programmer]
http://www.scarlet-jade.com/
I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.
Posted with Claws: http://www.claws-mail.org/

On Wednesday, 30 September 2015 12:18:20 UTC+1, Graham P Davis wrote:
On Tue, 29 Sep 2015 08:50:59 -0700 (PDT)
Graham Easterling wrote:


My understanding is the phrase relates to the dry Indian post monsoon
period, i.e. October/early November. September is still very much a
monsoon month.

Strictly speaking, I suppose it should now be called a Native American
Summer. ;-)


--
Graham P Davis, Bracknell, Berks. [Retd meteorologist/programmer]
http://www.scarlet-jade.com/
I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.
Posted with Claws: http://www.claws-mail.org/

Doesn't quite have the same ring to it...