There seems to be some confusion (well at least I'm confused) about just how warm January was.

Some reliable sites are giving a mean of 7.9C, e.g.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/feeds/35234711

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/summaries

but they do talk about the "UK mean", which I've never heard mentioned before, and if I have, I always assumed they just meant the CET temperature (which is a bit like PIN number I know).

On the other hand other pages give a CET of 9.7C:

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/h..._mean2015.html

which is ridiculously high. I at first assumed it was a typo for 7.9, but others are assuring me not.

Anyway in the know like to clarify it for me please?



Thanks
Trevor

On 08/01/2016 12:31, Trevor Harley wrote:
There seems to be some confusion (well at least I'm confused) about just how warm January was.

Some reliable sites are giving a mean of 7.9C, e.g.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/feeds/35234711

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/summaries

but they do talk about the "UK mean", which I've never heard mentioned before, and if I have, I always assumed they just meant the CET temperature (which is a bit like PIN number I know).

On the other hand other pages give a CET of 9.7C:

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/h..._mean2015.html

which is ridiculously high. I at first assumed it was a typo for 7.9, but others are assuring me not.

Anyway in the know like to clarify it for me please?



Thanks
Trevor

Trevor, I'm surprised you haven't heard of the UK means before as they
have been around for many years (I amongst others, had to type in the
values each month, so much more easy now). The CET is a completely
different set of figures and is derived in a different way to the UK
means. This series goes back to 1659 and is internally homogeneous but
you can't really compare it to other series.

As the north of the UK was cooler in December I'm not surprised at the
difference - the CET being bounded by Bristol, Lancashire and London.

This page
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/...egional-values
gives all the areas that stats are provided for.

Thanks. No, somehow I've missed the arrival of the UK means, or always assumed they were the same as the CETs but with sloppy language on the part of the met people. How confusing.

9.7 for the December CET is clearly right, and is phenomenal.

Trevor

"Trevor Harley" wrote in message
...
There seems to be some confusion (well at least I'm confused) about just
how warm January was.

Some reliable sites are giving a mean of 7.9C, e.g.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/feeds/35234711

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/summaries

but they do talk about the "UK mean", which I've never heard mentioned
before, and if I have, I always assumed they just meant the CET
temperature (which is a bit like PIN number I know).

On the other hand other pages give a CET of 9.7C:

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/h..._mean2015.html

which is ridiculously high. I at first assumed it was a typo for 7.9, but
others are assuring me not.

Anyway in the know like to clarify it for me please?


The MetO calculate regional and UK means using the scanned/digitised records
right back to 1910. Why 1910 - haven't a clue, but I suspect it is as far
back as the funding allowed them to do it. The CET is a totally different
animal.

Will
--
" Some sects believe that the world was created 5000 years ago. Another sect
believes that it was created in 1910 "
http://www.lyneside.demon.co.uk/Hayt...antage_Pro.htm
Will Hand (Haytor, Devon, 1017 feet asl)
---------------------------------------------

On Sat, 9 Jan 2016 09:27:46 -0000
"Eskimo Will" wrote:


"Trevor Harley" wrote in message
...
There seems to be some confusion (well at least I'm confused) about
just how warm January was.

Some reliable sites are giving a mean of 7.9C, e.g.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/feeds/35234711

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/climate/uk/summaries

but they do talk about the "UK mean", which I've never heard
mentioned before, and if I have, I always assumed they just meant
the CET temperature (which is a bit like PIN number I know).

On the other hand other pages give a CET of 9.7C:

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/h..._mean2015.html

which is ridiculously high. I at first assumed it was a typo for
7.9, but others are assuring me not.

Anyway in the know like to clarify it for me please?


The MetO calculate regional and UK means using the scanned/digitised
records right back to 1910. Why 1910 - haven't a clue, but I suspect
it is as far back as the funding allowed them to do it. The CET is a
totally different animal.


The digital record is still being added to and will be extended further
back:

http://blog.metoffice.gov.uk/2016/01...across-the-uk/

I recall that when I first moved to the Marine Division at Bracknell in
1965 records of weather and ocean currents from ships log books were
already being digitised. Many of these books dated from the 19th
century.


--
Graham P Davis, Bracknell, Berks. [Retd meteorologist/programmer]
http://www.scarlet-jade.com/
I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.
Posted with Claws: http://www.claws-mail.org/

On Saturday, 9 January 2016 09:27:53 UTC, wrote:

The MetO calculate regional and UK means using the scanned/digitised records
right back to 1910. Why 1910 - haven't a clue, but I suspect it is as far
back as the funding allowed them to do it. The CET is a totally different
animal.

Will
--
" Some sects believe that the world was created 5000 years ago. Another sect
believes that it was created in 1910 "
http://www.lyneside.demon.co.uk/Hayt...antage_Pro.htm
Will Hand (Haytor, Devon, 1017 feet asl)
---------------------------------------------

I think that 1910 was when the Scottish records begin and so the for UK records that is as far back as you can go. Let's face it, if we used the CET for the whole of the UK I imagine people living outside that region such as in Devon would complain.

In message , Eskimo Will
writes
The MetO calculate regional and UK means using the scanned/digitised
records right back to 1910.

I wouldn't mind that if the media didn't then say things along the lines
of "it was the mildest December since 1910, when records began", which
is very misleading. I hope that the Met Office's press releases on which
the media stories are based don't actually use the "since records began"
rubric.
--
John Hall
"Honest criticism is hard to take,
particularly from a relative, a friend,
an acquaintance, or a stranger." Franklin P Jones

In message
John Hall wrote:

In message , Eskimo Will
writes
The MetO calculate regional and UK means using the scanned/digitised
records right back to 1910.

I wouldn't mind that if the media didn't then say things along the lines
of "it was the mildest December since 1910, when records began", which
is very misleading. I hope that the Met Office's press releases on which
the media stories are based don't actually use the "since records began"
rubric.

Yes, it is meaningless. I could say exactly the same thing, but my
records started in 2002. Or claim the wettest December, since my
rainfall records started in 2010. Actually even that is not true, I
had 123.3mm in December 2012, as against 70.5mm in 2015 (in
Leicester).

I read something the other day that suggested that there were milder
Decembers (than 2015) shortly before 1910 in some locations...

I think you have to interpret what the MetO says with a political
awareness hat on....

--
Visit my weather station at
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/m.dixon4/Cumulus/index.htm

Believing is the start of everything to come. - Hayley Westenra

In message ,
writes
I read something the other day that suggested that there were milder
Decembers (than 2015) shortly before 1910 in some locations...

There may be a few places where it wasn't the warmest recorded, but it
was the warmest by a wide margin in the Central England Temperature
series, which goes back to 1659.
--
John Hall
"Honest criticism is hard to take,
particularly from a relative, a friend,
an acquaintance, or a stranger." Franklin P Jones

On 09/01/2016 18:59, John Hall wrote:
In message , Eskimo Will
writes
The MetO calculate regional and UK means using the scanned/digitised
records right back to 1910.

I wouldn't mind that if the media didn't then say things along the lines
of "it was the mildest December since 1910, when records began", which
is very misleading. I hope that the Met Office's press releases on which
the media stories are based don't actually use the "since records began"
rubric.
Judge for yourself -
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/news/rel...cember-records