"Skip" == Skip Elliott Bowman writes:

Skip I never mentioned climate change. I mentioned drought, and
Skip that's what bothers me. It may just be for this season; we may
Skip get an April deluge. But right now we're looking at water
Skip shortages, crop failures, fish runs dried up, and maybe an extra
Skip forest fire or five.

Even more than the drought, the thing I have noticed this year has
been the exceptionally early flowers here in Portland. Things
(daffodils, tulips, star magnolia, cherries, etc) were early _last_
year by two-three weeks. This year they are about a week even earlier
than last year. My yoshino cherries started opening this year on
March 5th and hit peak bloom a few days later. First tulip opened a
couple days ago, usually an early April bloom. Last year, the
earliness carried through to pretty much everything botanical. Given
what I've seen so far this year, which is unique in my experience, we
ought to start seeing local strawberries in early May instead of June.


--
Russell Senior ``I have nine fingers; you have ten.''

wrote in message

We have no idea what kind of drought and heat Oregon has
gone through in the past 50,000 years. Everybody's flipping out and
linking the recent lack of precip with global warming.

Humans haven't lived here for the past 50,000 years, so who cares what
happened
50-50,000 years ago?

This kind of 'abnormal' weather is perfectly normal and part of the
natural climate
cycle in the northwest.

At one time the Portland area was under hundreds of feet of water and at
other times it was being pummelled by volcanic debris. The difference is,
there weren't a million people trying to live here.

Personally, I don't see a big problem but I don't water my yard, I'm fine
drinking bottled water if necessary and I don't own a farm or otherwise rely
on irrigation.

If I was a farmer in Oregon and my livelihood depended on abundant water,
I'd be less cavalier about the water situation right now. Especially if
water was being diverted to beautify people's lawns. You oughtta read what
some of the Blazers and the folks near Lake Oswego consume for their yards
alone. Stand by to watch them bitch and moan. Ought to be good sport by
August.

-c

"Lobby Dosser" wrote in message
news:619Yd.81675

Our ecosystem cannot handle this dry weather.

Sure it can! It's seen drought before.

Our ecosystem can handle this dry weather, but it's not seen drought like
this with a 3,000,000 person burden placed upon it as well. It's the
farmers, fishermen, loggers (well, not the salvage loggers...they've
probably got their jerry cans filled and their torches prepared already) and
firefighters--and the obsessive car-washers and lawn-waterers--who have to
worry about the water shortage.

What are these people gonna do when they can't wash their Lexus every day?
(Answer: Wash their Lexus every day. Screw you and your drought.)
-c

"gatt" wrote in message
...

wrote in message

We have no idea what kind of drought and heat Oregon has
gone through in the past 50,000 years. Everybody's flipping out and
linking the recent lack of precip with global warming.

I don't know of anybody who is flipping out--not yet anyway. But I for one
am concerned--not only with the pending shortage of water but with the
general "Not my problem" attitude.

Humans haven't lived here for the past 50,000 years, so who cares what
happened
50-50,000 years ago?

Anyone who's interested in ecological/environmental/geological history is
interested. I for one like to know about the land and what it was like
before we got here--and why/how it changed.

This kind of 'abnormal' weather is perfectly normal and part of the
natural climate
cycle in the northwest.

At one time the Portland area was under hundreds of feet of water and at
other times it was being pummelled by volcanic debris. The difference is,
there weren't a million people trying to live here.

And now, if those things occur it would be our problem with which we'd have
to deal.

Personally, I don't see a big problem but I don't water my yard, I'm fine
drinking bottled water if necessary and I don't own a farm or otherwise
rely
on irrigation.
If I was a farmer in Oregon and my livelihood depended on abundant water,
I'd be less cavalier about the water situation right now.

Why do you think farmers grow crops, Chris? It's a hobby? We eat those
crops, we need those crops to survive--and not just for food. I'd say most
of the corn crop will be gone, potatoes not far after.

Especially if
water was being diverted to beautify people's lawns. You oughtta read
what
some of the Blazers and the folks near Lake Oswego consume for their yards
alone. Stand by to watch them bitch and moan. Ought to be good sport by
August.

You don't have to go to Lake Oswego--pretty much any and every neighborhood
has water hogs. And not all are wealthy--some have leaks in the pipes--that
water is wasted too. But some folks think it's more fun to poke fingers at
rich folks, like they're the only water hogs.

"gatt" wrote:


"Lobby Dosser" wrote in message
news:619Yd.81675

Our ecosystem cannot handle this dry weather.

Sure it can! It's seen drought before.

Our ecosystem can handle this dry weather, but it's not seen drought
like this with a 3,000,000 person burden placed upon it as well.

~2,000,000 in 1970.

It's
the farmers, fishermen, loggers

And most of them have dealt with this before.

(well, not the salvage
loggers...they've probably got their jerry cans filled and their
torches prepared already) and firefighters--and the obsessive
car-washers and lawn-waterers--who have to worry about the water
shortage.

What are these people gonna do when they can't wash their Lexus every
day? (Answer: Wash their Lexus every day. Screw you and your
drought.) -c

They'll do what was done in 1970.

"Lobby Dosser" wrote in message
news:uTqYd.626$oa6.186@trnddc07...
"gatt" wrote:


"Lobby Dosser" wrote in message
news:619Yd.81675

Our ecosystem cannot handle this dry weather.

Sure it can! It's seen drought before.

Our ecosystem can handle this dry weather, but it's not seen drought
like this with a 3,000,000 person burden placed upon it as well.

~2,000,000 in 1970.

So population in the metro area has increased by a third.

It's
the farmers, fishermen, loggers

And most of them have dealt with this before.

Not on a regular basis they haven't. I betcha dollars to donuts whatever
they went through, they wouldn't wish on an enemy.

What are these people gonna do when they can't wash their Lexus every
day? (Answer: Wash their Lexus every day. Screw you and your
drought.) -c

They'll do what was done in 1970.

It's a different society now. New rules, more people. We can't handle
situations like this like we did back 35 years ago.

"Skip Elliott Bowman" wrote:

"Lobby Dosser" wrote in message
news:uTqYd.626$oa6.186@trnddc07...
"gatt" wrote:


"Lobby Dosser" wrote in message
news:619Yd.81675

Our ecosystem cannot handle this dry weather.

Sure it can! It's seen drought before.

Our ecosystem can handle this dry weather, but it's not seen drought
like this with a 3,000,000 person burden placed upon it as well.

~2,000,000 in 1970.

So population in the metro area has increased by a third.

It's
the farmers, fishermen, loggers

And most of them have dealt with this before.

Not on a regular basis they haven't. I betcha dollars to donuts
whatever they went through, they wouldn't wish on an enemy.

No, it isn't easy.


What are these people gonna do when they can't wash their Lexus
every day? (Answer: Wash their Lexus every day. Screw you and your
drought.) -c

They'll do what was done in 1970.

It's a different society now. New rules, more people.

That's true.

We can't
handle situations like this like we did back 35 years ago.

"Skip Elliott Bowman" wrote in message
nk.net...
"Hank Oredson" wrote in message
news
"Skip Elliott Bowman" wrote in message
ink.net...
"Hank Oredson" wrote in message
ink.net...

We are talking about a minor change in the weather, not about
the climate, that has NOT changed at all.

I never mentioned climate change. I mentioned drought, and that's what
bothers me. It may just be for this season; we may get an April deluge.
But right now we're looking at water shortages, crop failures, fish runs
dried up, and maybe an extra forest fire or five.

Here is what you said:

"It's foolish to think we can predict extremes in climate, especially
for this area. We have no idea what kind of drought and heat Oregon has
gone through in the past 50,000 years. Everybody's flipping out and
linking the recent lack of precip with global warming. This kind of
'abnormal' weather is perfectly normal and part of the natural climate
cycle in the northwest."

I didn't write that, but okay.

Perhaps I did not understand you correctly.
To me "extremes in climate" means the climate changed.
If you meant "extremes in weather" then you should say so.

Point taken--I should have written the latter.

If that sort of thing bothers no one else, then we're in even worse
shape.

Why should anyone be bothered?

There is no response for a statement like that.


A good response might be an explanation why we should all
be bothered by what is probably a fairly normal weather pattern.
Oh, yes, it has not happened all that often all that recently.
Wait a year and then we see if the pattern persisits.
Wait a century and then we get a hint if it is a change in climate.

--

... Hank

http://home.earthlink.net/~horedson
http://home.earthlink.net/~w0rli

"Skip Elliott Bowman" wrote in message
ink.net...
"Lobby Dosser" wrote in message
news:uTqYd.626$oa6.186@trnddc07...
"gatt" wrote:


"Lobby Dosser" wrote in message
news:619Yd.81675

Our ecosystem cannot handle this dry weather.

Sure it can! It's seen drought before.

Our ecosystem can handle this dry weather, but it's not seen drought
like this with a 3,000,000 person burden placed upon it as well.

~2,000,000 in 1970.

So population in the metro area has increased by a third.

It's
the farmers, fishermen, loggers

And most of them have dealt with this before.

Not on a regular basis they haven't. I betcha dollars to donuts whatever
they went through, they wouldn't wish on an enemy.

What are these people gonna do when they can't wash their Lexus every
day? (Answer: Wash their Lexus every day. Screw you and your
drought.) -c

They'll do what was done in 1970.

It's a different society now. New rules, more people. We can't handle
situations like this like we did back 35 years ago.


Sure we can. Well, maybe not the newbies.
Those of us who have been around for awhile, like a lot more than 35 years,
will simply adapt and do what is needed. We've done it before, we know how.

--

... Hank

http://home.earthlink.net/~horedson
http://home.earthlink.net/~w0rli

wrote:
That's interesting; Central Park in NYC is going on its 4th consecutive
snowiest winter on record -- your Global Warming doomspeak rings hollow
on the east coast.

We may have a drought this year, but it's no anomaly.

Yeah, no kidding. We had the 2nd driest spring in Oregon's history in 1976 and
back then it was pretty damned severe. I don't recall anyone screaming "global
warming" back then. It's amazing that people take any odd weather patterns and
blame it on something - El Nino, Global Warming, and god knows what else, and
never bother to take the entire world's weather into consideration (that's what
the word 'global' means, alarmists).

Why are people's memories so selective? We had record flooding in 1996, about 3
years after a drought we had in the early 90s, but no one remembers or remarks
about that. Have one dry winter/spring and everyone screams "global warming". We
had it rain clear into July for many, many years in a row (which is unusual) but
no one mentions nor remembers that. But have one 3 week run of unusual warm
weather and everyone screams global warming and it's constant talk with everyone.

I see people gush about 10 minutes of sunbreak during an all day rain event, but
never mention the 15+ hours of rain.

Sheesh!

The weather *is* beautiful, isn't it?

No, it's not. Far too many negative aspects. There are so many reasons this
isn't a good thing:

1) Air stinks and is yellow/orange (say what you want about LA and most of
California's big cities - LA, San Diego - having 'nice weather', they're smelly
& ugly)
2) Increased traffic EVERYWHERE
3) Constant droning of lawnmowers
4) Having to hear 'Oh, it's such a wonderful day out' all the time
5) Dead/dying lawns and plants
6) Increased pollen count/allergy problems
7) Increased insect population (wasps already are appearing, folks)
8) Neighbor kids with loud car stereos with their windows down
9) More people outdoors late at night and keep others awake
10) Increased costs in electricity and water
11) Dry air, cracked/chapped lips constantly

If you like this kind of weather despite all of these reasons, kindly STFU about
it publicly so as to not rub it in for those of us who hate it. There's almost
nothing more annoying than those mindless people who gush on and on about sunny
days.

--Neil