fkasner wrote:

The data essentially prove nothing. What those who espouse global
warming have done is posit models of the atmosphere and other
meteorological variables and then massaged the models so they can
produce time dependent results. Then they compare these to the
purportedly neutral data. If they don't match they recalculate the
models with changed parameters to make new predictions. And so forth.
When they finally get what they consider a reasonable match to their
predictions and the so-called data they proclaim the proof of their
model and the underlying bias in the model called global warming.
FK

What FKasner is saying here is absolutely true. More significantly they are
deliberately concealing this from the public. For example the following is
a link to IPCC website that, purportedly, is intended to explicate the
concept of climatic (radiative) "forcing."

http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/214.htm#611

Therein they offer the following definition of "climatic forcing:"

"The radiative forcing of the surface-troposphere system due to the
perturbation in or the introduction of an agent (say, a change in greenhouse
gas concentrations) is the change in net (down minus up) irradiance (solar
plus long-wave; in Wm-2) at the tropopause AFTER allowing for stratospheric
temperatures to readjust to radiative equilibrium, but with surface and
tropo-spheric temperatures and state held fixed at the unperturbed values".

After reading this definition you might be scratching your head wondering
how "climatic forcing" is calculated/quantified. You won't find the answer
to this question on this page. Surely, you might think, a concept so
central to the GW argument must be accessible through the IPCC website.
Again you would be wrong. However, further down the page you will find a
hint:

"Defined in the above manner, radiative forcing of climate change is a
modelling concept that constitutes a simple but important means of
estimating the relative impacts due to different natural and anthropogenic
radiative causes upon the surface-troposphere system."

After reading how it is actually calculated (below) you might think it
rather comical that they describe it, here, as, "simple." (I suspect if we
were to put the question to the whackos here in sci.environment that they
would respond that it is simple because it is defined as simple.)

How then is "climatic forcing," actually calculated. Does it involve direct
measurement of atmospheric phenomena? Does it involve conclusions based on
laboratory data? No. It involves the methods that FKasner described above.
A more detailed description of the process can be found on the realclimate
website:

http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=142

Take a radiation computer model (GCM) and remove each long-wave
absorber (principally the greenhouse gases, but also clouds and aerosols)
and see what difference it makes to the amount of long-wave absorbed. This
gives the minimum effect from each component. The complementary
calculation, using only each particular absorber in turn, gives the
maximum effect. The table shows the instantaneous change in long-wave
absorption when each component or combination of components is removed
using the radiation code from the GISS GCM. (The source code is available
for those who have the patience to get it to work). This isn't a perfect
calculation but it's quick and easy and is close enough to the right
answer for our purposes.

The IPCC managed to conceal this in the first three assessment reports.
Let's not let them get away with it in the fourth.

Question: I read in one of the posts that the working draft of the fourth
assessment can be requested from the IPCC website by email request. But I
was unable to find it on the IPCC website. Please post a link.

Claudius Denk

How then is "climatic forcing," actually calculated.
Does it involve direct measurement of atmospheric phenomena?
..
The answer is yes, Forcings are directly measured in the atmosphere.

http://www.arm.gov/instruments/instrument.php?id=aeri
Atmospheric Radiation Measurement Program Instruments
http://www.arm.gov/instruments/instclass.php?id=radio
We also look down from the top: for instance, instruments like
CERES, IRIS, ERBE, and HIRS.

In article ,
says...


http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=142

Take a radiation computer model (GCM) and remove each long-wave
absorber (principally the greenhouse gases, but also clouds and aerosols)
and see what difference it makes to the amount of long-wave absorbed. This
gives the minimum effect from each component. The complementary
calculation, using only each particular absorber in turn, gives the
maximum effect. The table shows the instantaneous change in long-wave
absorption when each component or combination of components is removed
using the radiation code from the GISS GCM. (The source code is available
for those who have the patience to get it to work). This isn't a perfect
calculation but it's quick and easy and is close enough to the right
answer for our purposes.

The IPCC managed to conceal this in the first three assessment reports.
Let's not let them get away with it in the fourth.

What's to conceal?

Question: I read in one of the posts that the working draft of the fourth
assessment can be requested from the IPCC website by email request. But I
was unable to find it on the IPCC website. Please post a link.

Sorry, it's not on the IPCC web site. Besides you haven't studied the TAR
WG1, near as I can tell, so how would you notice any difference in the draft
document? Do you intend to comment on the document? Maybe you should just
take the time between now and the final release nest year to actually study
some of the science. It's all been published by now.

--
Eric Swanson --- E-mail address: e_swanson(at)skybest.com :-)
--------------------------------------------------------------

Claudius Denk wrote:
fkasner wrote:

The data essentially prove nothing. What those who espouse global
warming have done is posit models of the atmosphere and other
meteorological variables and then massaged the models so they can
produce time dependent results. Then they compare these to the
purportedly neutral data. If they don't match they recalculate the
models with changed parameters to make new predictions. And so forth.
When they finally get what they consider a reasonable match to their
predictions and the so-called data they proclaim the proof of their
model and the underlying bias in the model called global warming.
FK

What FKasner is saying here is absolutely true. More significantly they are
deliberately concealing this from the public.

Blah, blah, blah, Yada-yada-yada, Kitchen Sink, LOOK at that invisible
Wookie over there in the stratosphere! More Blahblah blabla and so on
and so forth.

Big WINDBAG Pretendski BLOWHARD like a hurricane. Fat Mouth Pretentious
Gasbag BLOWHARD won't stop with the assistance to organized crime to
obfuscate the science of GLOBAL WARMING. Invents invisible Wookies over
there in the cooling stratosphere as distractions from paying attention
to saving your life, distractions from saving your country,
distractions from saving your world for your grandchildren.

Here's what the people who actually went to college and studied
CLIMATOLOGY have to say, which is opposite from the stinking fartmouth
BLOWHARD Pretendski...


http://www.canada.com/topics/news/na...3635eb&k=10853
Forecasters predict another turbulent hurricane season in Atlantic
FREDERICTON (CP) - In what could signal a frightening new fact of life
in the age of global warming, Canadian and U.S. forecasters are warning
that another major hurricane season is brewing in the Atlantic Ocean.
The 2006 hurricane season officially opens on June 1, and already
scientists are telling people living in eastern North America that
numerous storms are predicted, with as many as five major hurricanes
packing winds of 180 km/h or greater. "It's kind of comparable to what
we were looking at last year at this time," says Bob Robichaud, a
meteorologist with the Canadian Hurricane Centre in Dartmouth, N.S.

"... but the indications are there that it is still going to be another
active season, almost twice as active as normal." Last year's hurricane
season was the most destructive on record. ... "The Atlantic Ocean
remains anomalously warm, and tropical Pacific sea surface temperatures
have continued to cool," says Colorado University forecaster Phil
Klotzbach, explaining two of the key triggers for hurricanes.

"Is this global warming? From now on will we see only active hurricane
seasons? ... Phillips says global warming could be contributing to the
unusual power of the big storms, like last year's Katrina. "We are
seeing stronger hurricanes - almost a 100 per cent increase in category
fours and fives," he says. "When they do develop, they're a lot bigger,
tougher and have more destructive power. They stay together longer.
This is the concern. They seem to have more power. That could have a
connection to global warming - the fact the atmosphere has changed and
ocean temperatures have warmed."

Who believes the KNOW-NOTHING BLOWHARD who strews big words as if he
understood anything? NOT THE MILITARY...

http://www.katc.com/Global/story.asp?S=4869235
Military gets ready for hurricane season
COLORADO SPRINGS, Colo. Ahead of the hurricane season that starts June
First, the Pentagon is buying cellular and satellite phone vans,
cutting paperwork to speed delivery of aircraft, troops and supplies to
stricken areas and already is sending military officers to Gulf states.
Yet military officials fear falling short of the public's expectations
when the next storm hits, given that the scenes of New Orleans'
devastation are still vivid and frustration with the federal response
still raw. Admiral Timothy Keating, commander of U-S Northern Command,
says the military can respond more quickly because of months of
preparations and disaster drills; streamlined procedures; and the
storage of "massive amounts" of food, water, ice and millions of
military M-R-Es (Meals Ready to Eat) in the region.


THE OIL COMPANIES DON'T BELIEVE BLOWHARD PRETENDSKI...

http://www.forextv.com/FT/AFX/ShowStory.jsp?seq=104237
U.S. oil sector braces for another big hurricane season - UPDATE 2
05/06/06 12:14 am (GMT)

HOUSTON (AFX) -- Even as coastal residents from Louisiana to Alabama
were rebuilding lives and homes shattered by the deadliest U.S.
hurricane season on record, one of the nation's top forecasters warned
Friday that 2006 is shaping up to be another brisk year of storms.
This time around, residents of the Gulf of Mexico coast and the
Atlantic seaboard -- especially the Carolinas and Long Island -- appear
the most susceptible to nature's fury.
Speaking to a room packed with energy executives in Houston,
AccuWeather's Joe *******i predicted that one tropical storm and five
hurricanes -- at least three at Category 3 or worse -- will slam into
the nation's shores between now and late November, the unofficial end
of the season.

*******i, the weather service's chief hurricane tracker, accurately
predicted last August that New Orleans would bear the brunt of
Hurricane Katrina as it grew to a top-level Category 5 storm. Katrina,
and later Hurricane Rita, spared most of the refineries along the
low-lying Texas coastline. Texas is home to 26 refineries that account
for a fourth of the nation's refining capacity.

But that could change this year, with warmer water temperatures and
atmospheric conditions resembling those found during previous major
storms in the region raising the likelihood of a direct strike.

New York's Long Island and the Carolina coastline also face very high
probabilities of being hit by a major storm because of unusually warm
waters in the northwest Atlantic, *******i said.

If his predictions prove accurate and Texas' refinery row gets
clobbered, drivers everywhere could again feel a sharp pinch in their
wallets at the gas pump.
Last summer, gasoline prices nationwide shot above $3 a gallon after
the combined force of Hurricanes Katrina and Rita shuttered nearly all
of the oil and gas production in the Gulf of Mexico.


LONELY STUPID PRETENDSKI, looking for dimwit suckers to con to their
deaths because they let down their guard. VILLIAN PRETENDSKI, not
satisfied with pied pipering 1,400 to their deaths in New Orleans last
year, looking for more willing gullible victims.

ALL ALONE in his anti-Global Warming spews and spams, joined only by
hirelings from oil company think tanks, interns paid minimum wage to
spam the newsgroups as if they were real people. Poor lonely BLOWHARD
WINDBAG PRETENDSKI, demolishing his reputation as champion kook from
outer space, too stupid to understand evidence.


http://www.infozine.com/news/stories...iew/sid/14837/
Saturday, May 06, 2006 :: infoZine Staff :: page views
The Atlantic, Caribbean, and the Gulf of Mexico Travel Alert
Announcement
TravelThis Public Announcement is being issued to alert U.S. citizens
to the upcoming Hurricane Season in the Atlantic, Caribbean, and the
Gulf of Mexico. The official hurricane season runs from June through
November. This Public Announcement expires on December 7, 2006.

Washington, D.C. - infoZine - The National Weather Service predicts
that the 2006 hurricane season will be as active as the 2005 season,
when 27 named storms and 15 hurricanes caused widespread havoc,
billions of dollars in infrastructure damage, and resulted in thousands
of fatalities. Many U.S. citizens traveling abroad in the affected
regions were forced to delay their return to the United States due to
infrastructure damage to airports and limited flight availability. In a
number of incidents, flights were suspended and passengers faced long
delays due to a need to repair a damaged airport. Roads were also
washed out or obstructed by debris, adversely affecting access to
airports. In the event of a hurricane, travelers should be aware that
they may not have the means to depart the area for 24-48 hours or more.

"Eric Swanson" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...


http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=142

Take a radiation computer model (GCM) and remove each long-wave
absorber (principally the greenhouse gases, but also clouds and
aerosols)
and see what difference it makes to the amount of long-wave absorbed.
This
gives the minimum effect from each component. The complementary
calculation, using only each particular absorber in turn, gives the
maximum effect. The table shows the instantaneous change in long-wave
absorption when each component or combination of components is removed
using the radiation code from the GISS GCM. (The source code is
available
for those who have the patience to get it to work). This isn't a perfect
calculation but it's quick and easy and is close enough to the right
answer for our purposes.

The IPCC managed to conceal this in the first three assessment reports.
Let's not let them get away with it in the fourth.

What's to conceal?

Read what I wrote.


Question: I read in one of the posts that the working draft of the fourth
assessment can be requested from the IPCC website by email request. But I
was unable to find it on the IPCC website. Please post a link.

Sorry, it's not on the IPCC web site.

Sorry ain't good enough. It's not like the GW issue just emerged a month
ago. They've had plenty of time to fully explain this procedure.

Besides you haven't studied the TAR
WG1, near as I can tell, so how would you notice any difference in the
draft
document? Do you intend to comment on the document?

Do you?

Maybe you should just
take the time between now and the final release nest year to actually
study
some of the science. It's all been published by now.

--
Eric Swanson --- E-mail address: e_swanson(at)skybest.com :-)
--------------------------------------------------------------

Claudius Denk wrote:

Sorry ain't good enough. It's not like the GW issue just emerged a month
ago. They've had plenty of time to fully explain this procedure.

And you have had plenty of time to learn it.

More Strange Reports of Mutant Maggots Emerging From Claudius Denk
Syphallitic Groin Canker Boils. BBC News story, citing a local ...
alt.global-warming - May 7, 11:48 pm by Oozing Pus Claudius Denk VD
Sores - 12 messages - 2 authors

How can you tell the difference between a Redneck and a Right ...
"Bill Ward Exxon Bumboy" wrote in
news:
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh - May 7, 11:40 pm by Oozing Pus Claudius Denk VD
Sores - 10 messages - 4 authors

GLOBAL WARMING REAL, Whitehouse Agrees with Scientists
"Claudius Denk" writes: Ah, the Denk sock
puppet returns. I'm really sorry to see that your McGinnn ...
alt.energy - May 7, 9:50 pm by D Smith - 95 messages - 24 authors

An inverted pyramid
On 6 May 2006 03:08:37 -0700, "Exxon Organized Crime" sun.myung.moon@
thepopeshinesmyshoes.com wrote: H2 PV! WHy do you keep changing your
name? ...
sci.environment - May 7, 9:20 pm by beavith - 14 messages - 8 authors

Sharing Harry Conover's Favorite Necrophilia Jokes
I used to be into S & M, bestiality, and necrophilia, but then I
realized I was just beating a dead horse ... -- Guy ...
sci.environment - May 7, 6:28 pm by Claudius Denk Necrophilia Joke - 1
message - 1 author

How contagious are Claudius Denk's bursting syphalitic boils?
alt.global-warming - May 7, 3:33 pm by
- 21 messages - 11 authors

Call to Join Claudius Denk Brigade Gay Liberation Skinheads
Oh and regarding "no gays in the skinhead movement"???? I've been to
Europe and a number of the skinheads that were out and about were
proudly holding hands. ...
alt.politics.nationalism.white - May 7, 11:44 am by Staff003 - 16
messages - 7 authors

Rita's Dumb Question -- BLOWHARD Pretendski won't shut up.
this question indicates that, like myself, you are not a smart person.
But that's not a problem because there are lots of smart people on this
newsgroup. ...
sci.environment - May 6, 11:05 pm by Exxon Organized Crime - 4 messages
- 4 authors

Solution to Global Warming
One of the looming issues of the Global Warming debate is why CO2 is
considered,
"forcing," and H2O, which indisputably is involved with the vast
majority of ...
sci.environment - May 6, 1:00 pm by Exxon Organized Crime - 10 messages
- 5 authors

Global Warming Slows the Pacific Trade Winds
Another successful climate model prediction. Yeah. There must be a
thousand of them. Here's another. I predict it will be summer ...
alt.energy - May 5, 3:30 am by Claudius Denk Gay Liberation Brigade - 5
messages - 3 authors

Never explain a complex topic to a Libertarian KKK John Bircher ...
sci.environment - May 4, 11:57 pm by Exxon Organized Crime - 4 messages
- 4 authors

Global Tragedy, Global Warming -- MORE STORMS FROM HELL --
MORE STORMS FROM HELL --
http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Worl...58788-sun.html
Beijing hit by killer storm BEIJING -- Hail and rainstorms killed 12
....
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh - May 4, 8:05 pm by Rita Refugee - 16 messages -
6 authors

EXXON, Koch Oil on notice:
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercu...s/14488688.htm
House OKs
energy price-gouging punishment H. JOSEF HEBERT Associated Press This
bill is ...
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh - May 4, 6:10 am by Geo - 17 messages - 5 authors

KKK Harrassment -- African-American Workers Sue Employer for $175M
. com: If you are so
familiar with
the, "specific system of interest," why don't you just straighten Alexi
up ...
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh - May 4, 5:04 am by Claudius Denk Gay Liberation
Brigade - 7 messages - 7 authors

Ku Klux Klan plans rally at Antietam
. com: What level of
certainty would you put on the data points prior to 1960? This ...
sci.environment - May 4, 4:43 am by Claudius Denk Gay Liberation
Brigade - 35 messages - 9 authors

Global warming weakens Pacific trade winds -- Long-term effect ...
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/12612965/ Global warming weakens Pacific trade
winds Long-term effect could disrupt marine food chain NEW YORK - The
trade winds in the ...
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh - May 4, 12:31 am by Jim \"Claudius Denk\" McGinn
- 1 message - 1 author

Be Arfraid, Be VERY Afraid --- Hurricane destruction powers global ...
----- They are stunning increases that are way outside the bounds of
natural variability," she said. ...
alt.fan.rush-limbaugh - May 3, 11:39 pm by Claudius Denk - 2 messages -
2 authors

MORE STORMS FROM HELL -- Heavy Metal Dust Storms
http://times.hankooki.com/lpage/nati...7473311960.htm
Dust Storm Brings Higher Density of Heavy Metals The yellow dust storm
that blanketed ...
sci.environment - May 3, 11:21 pm by Claudius Denk - 1 message - 1
author

What'll probably happen is More Smelly Crap from O'Hara
oups.com: Roger,
sunspot data indicates that most of the solar radiance increase
occurred before 1980 and ...
sci.environment - May 3, 11:06 pm by Claudius Denk - 12 messages - 8
authors

Cato Institute co-founder Charles G. Koch, and David Koch director ...
news Claudius There is no such living person as "Claudius Denk". This ...
sci.environment - May 3, 10:58 pm by Claudius Denk - 10 messages - 4
authors

PAID TO DENY GLOBAL WARMING! Koch" "Organized Crime".
Truth can only come from those funded by Koch" "Organized Crime". There
is no such living person as "Claudius Denk". This is a pseudo ...
sci.environment - May 3, 9:34 pm by Claudius Denk - 15 messages - 8
authors

Another nail in the coffin of AGW -- "Bill Koch" "Organized ...
.... Is Beryllium a proxy for Temperature? I could find nothing that
explained the significance of Be. There is no such living person as
"Claudius Denk". ...
sci.environment - May 3, 8:26 pm by Claudius Denk - 16 messages - 9
authors

In article , says...


"Eric Swanson" wrote...
says...

Question: I read in one of the posts that the working draft of the fourth
assessment can be requested from the IPCC website by email request. But I
was unable to find it on the IPCC website. Please post a link.

Sorry, it's not on the IPCC web site.

Sorry ain't good enough. It's not like the GW issue just emerged a month
ago. They've had plenty of time to fully explain this procedure.

There's no need for you to see a draft of a report when you've proven that
you don't give a damn about the science by not looking at the previous work.

Besides you haven't studied the TAR
WG1, near as I can tell, so how would you notice any difference in the
draft
document? Do you intend to comment on the document?

Do you?

Yes, I'm considering it.

--
Eric Swanson --- E-mail address: e_swanson(at)skybest.com :-)
--------------------------------------------------------------