Weatherlawyer wrote:

The latitudes from the region of the Azores to the Baltic are very warm.

In this image:
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/New...06_197_lrg.jpg
it can be seen quite clearly that the highest ocean temperatures are
north of Scandinavia and south of Africa. How the hell is gallblowing
warm anything to do with that? The somnambulists aught to be awakened
and taught how to lead fruitful lives while they still can.

The poor, irascible, unpleasantly self deceptive, humourless schmucks.

In article .com,
says...


Weatherlawyer wrote:

The latitudes from the region of the Azores to the Baltic are very warm.

In this image:
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/New...nomaly_2006_19
7_lrg.jpg
it can be seen quite clearly that the highest ocean temperatures are
north of Scandinavia and south of Africa. How the hell is gallblowing
warm anything to do with that? The somnambulists aught to be awakened
and taught how to lead fruitful lives while they still can.

Well now, lets see....oops, no date! What date is this graph? And, what
about the sea-ice mask, is there any attempt to note that the sea-ice north
of Iceland is receeding, thus exposing large areas of warm water to the
satellite sensors? Hey, there's lots of open water in the Baffin Bay/Davis
Strait area too. Don't you like the lovely Mercator projection, which makes
Greenland look larger than the U.S. lower 48?? Oh, BTW, have you heard that
warming is forecast to be strongest at higher latitudes as the ice melts??

The poor, irascible, unpleasantly self deceptive, humourless schmucks.

The rich, arrogant idiot lawyers of the world that have no clue about science.
Give it up, troll!

--
Eric Swanson --- E-mail address: e_swanson(at)skybest.com :-)
--------------------------------------------------------------

(Lloyd Parker) wrote in :

In article .com,
"raylopez99" wrote:
Lloyd Parker wrote:

First, observe from link (1) below that there are two RITS in the
modern era (20th century). The first RIT happened from 1915 to 1945.
The second RIT happened from 1980 to present.

No, the first one had a slight plateau and then continued upwards. Look
at,
say, a titration curve, or a heating curve; you see this all the time in
science and nobody calls it two different processes.

I beg to differ.

But answer this: how can you square the fact that the peak of the El
Nino cycle coincides with the Middle ages (800AD+) warming period?
Coincidence? There was no man made CO2 (or very little) back then.


How do you know when the El Nino peaked?

Face it Lloyd: I've planted the seed of doubt in your small cranium.
And if you're smart it will grow.

"Doubt is our product." "Doubt is our product." "Doubt is our product."

http://www.markhertsgaard.com/Articl...shingtonSlept/
"... But if the deniers appear to have lost the scientific argument,
they prolonged the policy battle, delaying actions to reduce emissions
when such cuts mattered most. "For 25 years, people have been warning
that we had a window of opportunity to take action, and if we waited
until the effects were obvious it would be too late to avoid major
consequences," says Oppenheimer. "Had some individual countries,
especially the United States, begun to act in the early to mid-1990s,
we might have made it. But we didn't, and now the impacts are here."

"The goal of the disinformation campaign wasn't to win the debate,"
says Gelbspan. "The goal was simply to keep the debate going. When the
public hears the media report that some scientists believe warming is
real but others don't, its reaction is 'Come back and tell us when
you're really sure.' So no political action is taken."

Representative Henry Waxman, the California Democrat who chaired the
1994 hearings where tobacco executives unanimously declared under oath
that cigarettes were not addictive, watches today's global-warming
deniers with a sense of déjà vu. It all reminds him of the
confidential slogan a top tobacco flack coined when arguing that the
science on smoking remained unsettled: "Doubt is our product." Now,
Waxman says, "not only are we seeing the same tactics the tobacco
industry used, we're seeing some of the same groups. For example, the
Advancement of Sound Science Coalition was created [in 1993] to debunk
the dangers of secondhand smoking before it moved on to global
warming."

The scientific work Frederick Seitz oversaw for R. J. Reynolds from
1978 to 1987 was "perfectly fine research, but off the point," says
Stanton A. Glantz, a professor of medicine at the University of
California, San Francisco, and a lead author of The Cigarette Papers
(1996), which exposed the inner workings of the Brown & Williamson
Tobacco Corporation. "Looking at stress, at genetics, at lifestyle
issues let Reynolds claim it was funding real research. But then it
could cloud the issue by saying, 'Well, what about this other possible
causal factor?' It's like coming up with 57 other reasons for Hurricane
Katrina rather than global warming."

For his part, Seitz says he was comfortable taking tobacco money, "as
long as it was green. I'm not quite clear about this moralistic issue.
We had absolutely free rein to decide how the money was spent." Did the
research give the tobacco industry political cover? "I'll leave that to
the philosophers and priests," he replies. ..."

http://snipurl.com/txkv
http://tobaccodocuments.org/all/?mod...cument_code=&d
ate_op=&date=&records_per_page=100&sort_by=date

"Doubt is our product." "Doubt is our product." "Doubt is our product."

http://tobaccodocuments.org/bliley_bw/680110947.html
"... memorandum dated August 21, 1969 from J. W. Burgard to Mr. R. A: Pittman and others. The subject of
the memo is "Doubt. " The memo reads approximately as follows: "Doubt is our product since it is the best
means of competing with the body of fact that exists in the mind of the general public. It is also the means of
establishing that there is a controversy. ...

"Doubt is our product." "Doubt is our product." "Doubt is our product."

http://tobaccodocuments.org/nysa_ti_m2/TI04450339.html
It cited an Aug. 21, 1969, internal memorandum W. Burgard, Brown & Williamson's vice president for
marketing, saying. "Doubt is our product since it is the best means of competing with the body of fact that
exists in the minds of the general public. It is also the means of establishing a controversy."

"Doubt is our product." "Doubt is our product." "Doubt is our product."

http://tobaccodocuments.org/nysa_ti_s3/TI22182043.html
http://tobaccodocuments.org/bw/12515397.html
http://tobaccodocuments.org/nysa_ti_s4/TI25930219.html
http://tobaccodocuments.org/bw/267023.html Page 212: 0000267023
http://tobaccodocuments.org/bw/11839935.html Page 213: 0011839935

"Doubt is our product." "Doubt is our product." "Doubt is our product."

http://tobaccodocuments.org/nysa_ti_m2/TI09110286.html Page 2: TI09110286
Documents obtained by the Federal Trade Commission show that as early as 1969 one tobacco company had
a plan to sow doubt and confusion in the public's mind about the validity of evidence linking smoking to
disease and death. The company's document says Doubt is our product since it is the best means of
competing with the "body of fact" that exists in the mind of the general public. It is also the means of
establishing a controversy.

"Doubt is our product." "Doubt is our product." "Doubt is our product."

http://tobaccodocuments.org/bw/332501.html
.... our product as doubt, our message as truth -- welt stated, and our competition as the body of anti-
cigarette fact that exists in the public mind. We have chosen the mass public as our consumer for several
reasons: - This is where the misinformation about smoking und health has been focused. The Congress and
federal agencies are already being dealt with -- and perhaps as effectively as possible -- by the Tobacco
Institute. It is a group with little exposure to the positive side of smoking and health. It is the prime force in
influencing Congress and federal agencies without public support little effort would be given to a crusade
against cigarettes. Doubt is our product since it is the best means of competing with the "body of fact" that
exists in the mind of the general public. It is also the means of establishing a controversy. Within the
business we recognize that a controversy exists. However, with the general public the consensus is that
cigarettes are in some way harmful to the health. If we are successful in establishing a controversy at the
public level, then there is an opportunity to put across the real facts about smoking and health. Doubt is also
the limit of our "product".
http://tobaccodocuments.org/bw/332506.html

"Doubt is our product." "Doubt is our product." "Doubt is our product."



"Doubt is our product." "Doubt is our product." "Doubt is our product."



"Doubt is our product." "Doubt is our product." "Doubt is our product."



"Doubt is our product." "Doubt is our product." "Doubt is our product."

(Eric Swanson) wrote in
:

In article .com,
says...


Weatherlawyer wrote:

The latitudes from the region of the Azores to the Baltic are very
warm.

In this image:
http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/New...sst_anomaly_20
06_19
7_lrg.jpg
it can be seen quite clearly that the highest ocean temperatures are
north of Scandinavia and south of Africa. How the hell is gallblowing
warm anything to do with that? The somnambulists aught to be awakened
and taught how to lead fruitful lives while they still can.

Well now, lets see....oops, no date! What date is this graph?


The date is encoded in the picture filename: year 2006, day 197 (last week). Other important information is
encoded as well: "sst_anomaly", meaning the variance from the statistically averaged norm for the area. The
reds are hotter waters this week then they normally are this week in most other years, and the blues are
cooler this week than they normally are this week in other years.

Despite the picture colors you would still die of hypothermia if you fell overboard in those far northern "hot
spots" and didn't get rescued soon.


And,
what about the sea-ice mask, is there any attempt to note that the
sea-ice north of Iceland is receeding, thus exposing large areas of warm
water to the satellite sensors? Hey, there's lots of open water in
the Baffin Bay/Davis Strait area too. Don't you like the lovely Mercator
projection, which makes Greenland look larger than the U.S. lower 48??
Oh, BTW, have you heard that warming is forecast to be strongest at
higher latitudes as the ice melts??

The poor, irascible, unpleasantly self deceptive, humourless schmucks.

The rich, arrogant idiot lawyers of the world that have no clue about
science. Give it up, troll!

Self deceptive schmuck wrote:
In article .com,
says...
ihttp://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NewImages/Images/sst_anomaly_2006_19
7_lrg.jpg
it can be seen quite clearly that the highest ocean temperatures are
north of Scandinavia and south of Africa. How the hell is gallblowing
warm anything to do with that? The somnambulists aught to be awakened
and taught how to lead fruitful lives while they still can.

Well now, lets see....oops, no date! What date is this graph?

Take a look at the URL and make an uneducated guess. If that fails you,
try fiddling the URL to step back a link or two.

And, what about the sea-ice mask, is there any attempt to note that the sea-ice
north of Iceland is receding, thus exposing large areas of warm water to the
satellite sensors?

I may be making a mistake in assuming you know what you are talking
about, though you don't seem to know that it is common knowledge that
the Arctic is denuded of ice and has been for a year or so.

Notwithstanding that small hiccough in your education, the fact that
the temperatures in the picture denote 20 degrees or so in a region
whose normal state is 2 degrees from top to bottom; likewise the region
around the 55th(?) degree south parallel.

I don't expect you to be aware of the strong narrow current that runs
along that parallel near the surface although I had alluded to it in my
post and this is a science newsgroup you have posted to.

I hope you have the ability to take that on board before you dare to
post a reply, as the potent stirring forces that current requires,
defies all logic with its present 15 to 20 degree schema.

Hey, there's lots of open water in the Baffin Bay/Davis Strait area too.

Your point being?

You do know that bays and straights are semi landlocked by definition?
Such regions are more subject to the influences of thermoclines in the
behaviour of their currents than is the case with open water.

Don't you like the lovely Mercator projection, which makes
Greenland look larger than the U.S. lower 48?? Oh, BTW, have you heard that
warming is forecast to be strongest at higher latitudes as the ice melts??

As the image is informing you that the temperatures are strange along
lines of latitude, the type of projection utilised can not be seen as
biased in any way. If you have an issue with Mercator projections, you
aught to take it up with the folks at alt.mapmakers.politics.

The rich, arrogant idiot lawyers of the world that have no clue about science.

What on earth makes you think I am a rich, arrogant lawyer? And were I
such, would I be an idiot?

Exxon Stockholders Liable for Global Warming Damages wrote:

Despite the picture colors you would still die of hypothermia if you fell overboard in those far northern "hot
spots" and didn't get rescued soon.

That's a misconception. In normal years when the temperatures are cold,
a swimmer, provided that he or she had enough stamina to keep busy,
would generate enough warmth to stay alive until they tired.

It is the dormant floater who is prone to die rapidly but if those
temperatures are what they say they are, then even a floater would be
comfortable if somewhat at a loss as to what to do next to save himself.

"Weatherlawyer" wrote in
ups.com:


Exxon Stockholders Liable for Global Warming Damages wrote:

Despite the picture colors you would still die of hypothermia if you
fell overboard in those far northern "hot spots" and didn't get rescued
soon.

That's a misconception. In normal years when the temperatures are cold,
a swimmer, provided that he or she had enough stamina to keep busy,
would generate enough warmth to stay alive until they tired.

It is the dormant floater who is prone to die rapidly but if those
temperatures are what they say they are, then even a floater would be
comfortable if somewhat at a loss as to what to do next to save himself.



You ARE NOT looking at a temperature map.

That is an ANOMALY MAP showing the range of varience from a statistical
norm of what temperatures have been.

You are misrepresenting the data, and apparantly deliberately. There exist
actual temperature maps covering the same territory which can tell you
what the surface temperatures are, and at depths down to 2000 meters. The
Argos website has bouys floating all over that range which sink and rise
every 10 days and phone home the temperatures from top to bottom of their
programmed vertical operation.

Come back when you have something to say, and then say it. For now you
don't even know what you are looking at.

In article . com, says...


Self deceptive schmuck wrote:
In article .com,
says...
ihttp://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NewImages/Images/sst_anomaly_2006_19
7_lrg.jpg
it can be seen quite clearly that the highest ocean temperatures are
north of Scandinavia and south of Africa. How the hell is gallblowing
warm anything to do with that? The somnambulists aught to be awakened
and taught how to lead fruitful lives while they still can.

Well now, lets see....oops, no date! What date is this graph?

Take a look at the URL and make an uneducated guess. If that fails you,
try fiddling the URL to step back a link or two.

And, what about the sea-ice mask, is there any attempt to note that the sea-ice
north of Iceland is receding, thus exposing large areas of warm water to the
satellite sensors?

I may be making a mistake in assuming you know what you are talking
about, though you don't seem to know that it is common knowledge that
the Arctic is denuded of ice and has been for a year or so.

Wow, are you really out to lunch! There's still lots of sea-ice over the
North Pole. The minimum extent won't be until the end of the melt season..
Where do you get your "common knowledge", the cartoons?
http://polar.ncep.noaa.gov/seaice/Analyses.html#akmap

Notwithstanding that small hiccough in your education, the fact that
the temperatures in the picture denote 20 degrees or so in a region
whose normal state is 2 degrees from top to bottom; likewise the region
around the 55th(?) degree south parallel.

The graph you point to is the anomaly data, not the actual temperature in
degrees. It's the present difference between the temperature field and
that averaged over some period of years.

I don't expect you to be aware of the strong narrow current that runs
along that parallel near the surface although I had alluded to it in my
post and this is a science newsgroup you have posted to.

I don't expect you to know that the satellite data only sees surface
temperatures, but what does this sub surface current have to do with
ahything?

I hope you have the ability to take that on board before you dare to
post a reply, as the potent stirring forces that current requires,
defies all logic with its present 15 to 20 degree schema.

I love to reply to idiot trolls.

Hey, there's lots of open water in the Baffin Bay/Davis Strait area too.

Your point being?

The anomaly data shows warming there because the satellite is not seeing
the sea-ice that was present there in earlier years. It's a bogus data point.

You do know that bays and straights are semi landlocked by definition?
Such regions are more subject to the influences of thermoclines in the
behaviour of their currents than is the case with open water.

Don't you like the lovely Mercator projection, which makes
Greenland look larger than the U.S. lower 48?? Oh, BTW, have you heard that
warming is forecast to be strongest at higher latitudes as the ice melts??

As the image is informing you that the temperatures are strange along
lines of latitude, the type of projection utilised can not be seen as
biased in any way. If you have an issue with Mercator projections, you
aught to take it up with the folks at alt.mapmakers.politics.

My point was that the areas of red seen at high latitudes in the NH are not
actually big, in comparison with the land areas nearer the Equator.

The rich, arrogant idiot lawyers of the world that have no clue about science.

What on earth makes you think I am a rich, arrogant lawyer? And were I
such, would I be an idiot?

But...but, you call yourself "Weatherlawyer". You mean you aren't a lawyer?
You must then be an ordinary idiot, not one educated in the law.

--
Eric Swanson --- E-mail address: e_swanson(at)skybest.com :-)
--------------------------------------------------------------

(Eric Swanson) wrote in
:

In article . com,
says...


Self deceptive schmuck wrote:
In article .com,
says...
ihttp://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Newsroom/NewImages/Images/sst_anoma
ly_2006_19
7_lrg.jpg
it can be seen quite clearly that the highest ocean temperatures are
north of Scandinavia and south of Africa. How the hell is gallblowing
warm anything to do with that? The somnambulists aught to be awakened
and taught how to lead fruitful lives while they still can.

Well now, lets see....oops, no date! What date is this graph?

Take a look at the URL and make an uneducated guess. If that fails you,
try fiddling the URL to step back a link or two.

And, what about the sea-ice mask, is there any attempt to note that
the sea-ice north of Iceland is receding, thus exposing large areas of
warm water to the satellite sensors?

I may be making a mistake in assuming you know what you are talking
about, though you don't seem to know that it is common knowledge that
the Arctic is denuded of ice and has been for a year or so.

Wow, are you really out to lunch! There's still lots of sea-ice over
the North Pole. The minimum extent won't be until the end of the melt
season.. Where do you get your "common knowledge", the cartoons?
http://polar.ncep.noaa.gov/seaice/Analyses.html#akmap

Notwithstanding that small hiccough in your education, the fact that
the temperatures in the picture denote 20 degrees or so in a region
whose normal state is 2 degrees from top to bottom; likewise the region
around the 55th(?) degree south parallel.

The graph you point to is the anomaly data, not the actual temperature
in degrees. It's the present difference between the temperature field
and that averaged over some period of years.

I don't expect you to be aware of the strong narrow current that runs
along that parallel near the surface although I had alluded to it in my
post and this is a science newsgroup you have posted to.

I don't expect you to know that the satellite data only sees surface
temperatures, but what does this sub surface current have to do with
ahything?

I hope you have the ability to take that on board before you dare to
post a reply, as the potent stirring forces that current requires,
defies all logic with its present 15 to 20 degree schema.

I love to reply to idiot trolls.

Hey, there's lots of open water in the Baffin Bay/Davis Strait area
too.

Your point being?

The anomaly data shows warming there because the satellite is not seeing
the sea-ice that was present there in earlier years. It's a bogus data
point.

BZZZZT. Wrong answer contestent, but thanks for playing.

The Microwave Sounding Units can penetrate several hundred meters to a strong themocline signature.

Argos has floating drifting bouys over the ice-free areas as backup confirmation, which come in two flavors:
1600 and 2000 meters, which successively sink and rise to the surface measuring the temperatures and
salinity as they pass through the vertical columns -- they phone home every 10 days. We are on top of the
situation.



You do know that bays and straights are semi landlocked by definition?
Such regions are more subject to the influences of thermoclines in the
behaviour of their currents than is the case with open water.

Don't you like the lovely Mercator projection, which makes
Greenland look larger than the U.S. lower 48?? Oh, BTW, have you heard
that warming is forecast to be strongest at higher latitudes as the
ice melts??

As the image is informing you that the temperatures are strange along
lines of latitude, the type of projection utilised can not be seen as
biased in any way. If you have an issue with Mercator projections, you
aught to take it up with the folks at alt.mapmakers.politics.

My point was that the areas of red seen at high latitudes in the NH are
not actually big, in comparison with the land areas nearer the Equator.

The rich, arrogant idiot lawyers of the world that have no clue about
science.

What on earth makes you think I am a rich, arrogant lawyer? And were I
such, would I be an idiot?

But...but, you call yourself "Weatherlawyer". You mean you aren't a
lawyer? You must then be an ordinary idiot, not one educated in the law.

In article 02,
says...

(Eric Swanson) wrote in
:


http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/New...anomaly_2006_1
7_lrg.jpg


The anomaly data shows warming there because the satellite is not seeing
the sea-ice that was present there in earlier years. It's a bogus data
point.

BZZZZT. Wrong answer contestent, but thanks for playing.

The Microwave Sounding Units can penetrate several hundred meters to a strong
themocline signature.

Close, but no cigar, sockhead!

Argos has floating drifting bouys over the ice-free areas as backup
confirmation, which come in two flavors:
1600 and 2000 meters, which successively sink and rise to the surface
measuring the temperatures and
salinity as they pass through the vertical columns -- they phone home every 10
days. We are on top of the
situation.

The Microwave Sounding Unit (MSU) is a satellite mounted instrument which
measures atmospheric emissions. While the drifting bouys you mention could
do what you suggest, they aren't wide spread enough to provide the resolution
seen in the graphic. That data is derived from other satellite instruments,
exactly which ones I don't know. The fact that the instruments now find open
water where there used to be sea-ice at this time of the year causes the
resulting temperature anomaly to appear to be much warmer.



--
Eric Swanson --- E-mail address: e_swanson(at)skybest.com :-)
--------------------------------------------------------------