On Mar 30, 2:35 am, Joe Fischer wrote:

And I am not convinced man is causing warming
with CO2 emissions.

Joe Fischer


FRED SINGER'S SEPPtic Tank
Stink tank has accumulated nice nearly $1 million retirement fund for
Singer any time the compliant board decides to bestow it on him. Has
interesting portfolio of stocks donated over the years, looking at
their IRS 990 report forms.

Besides listing three dead guys on it's board of science advisors
(presumably whom have advised by seance for 3, 5 and 7 years now), the
industry puppets on board are interesting.

Board of Science Advisors

* Bruce N. Ames (1928- ) Known tobacco shill on the payroll of
British-American Tobacco. http://www.exxonsecrets.org/em.php?mapid=95
Participated in corrupt operation of ICSE in Paris, 2003. George C.
Marshall Inst., CFACT, Reason Foundation, SEPP. Signed Liezieg,
Heidelberg Appeal, OISM petition. TASSC (Philip Morris Tobacco,
convicted racketeer, front group for science crimes) Science Advisor.

* C.J.F. Böttcher (1915- ) Heidelberg Appeal scam, HAN, ESEF.
Funded by Shell Oil and two Dutch auto front groups, RJ Reyonlds
Tobacco.. Signed Liepzig. Founding member of The Club of Rome often
ridiculed by rightwingers for alarmism.

* Tor Ragnar Gerholm (1925- ) Moonie like Singer, ESEF fraud
operator, signed Leipzig Declaration.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php...onment_F orum

* Michael J. Higatsberger (1924-2004) Moonie like Singer. Leipzig
Declaration.

* Henry R. Linden (1920s- ) first president of the Gas Research
Institute, received Exxon-sponsored Storch award as far back as 1967.
Leipzig Declaration.

* Sir William Mitchell (1925-2002) Involved in ESEF fraud
organization. Leipzig Declaration.

* William A. Nierenberg (1919-2000) was a member of the Board of
Directors of the George C. Marshall Institute run by tobacco racketeer
Fred Seitz, board member of SEPP. Leipzig Declaration.

* Michel Salomon (1927- ) Corrupt head of ICSE science fraud
operation founded in Paris in 1993, particpant in several Singer fraud
operations. ESEF crook.

* Chauncey Starr (1912- ) founded the 'Electric Power Research
Institute', researching coal power, signed the Leipzig Declaration on
Global Climate Change "As independent scientists concerned with
atmospheric and climate problems ..."


SEPPtic Tank's Board of Directors:

Board of Directors

* S. Fred Singer, (1924- ) President. In a September 24, 1993,
sworn affidavit, Dr. Singer admitted to doing climate change research
on behalf of oil companies, such as Exxon, Texaco, Arco, Shell and the
American Gas Association. TASSC (Philip Morris Tobacco front group
for science crimes) Science Advisor.
http://www.exxonsecrets.org/em.php?mapid=95

* Frederick Seitz,(1911- ) Chairman. Tobacco shill once had his
likeness used for an RJ Reynold Tobacco ad campaign "9 out of 10
Doctors prefer Camels". Received over $660,000 (on the books, under
the table?) from RJR convicted racketeers over 16 years. Headed George
C. Marshall crime organization. Participated in multiple Singer frauds
since 1993. TASSC (Philip Morris Tobacco front group for science
crimes) Science Advisor.
http://www.exxonsecrets.org/em.php?mapid=367

* Charles Gelman, (1931- ) Super kook, fined $1 million dollars,
plus $4 million clean-up for 1,4-dioxane pollution from his factory.
Sued and attacked environmentalist who made him clean up his mess.

* David L. Hill (1919- ) (officially replaced in 2000 by Mark M.
Brandsdorfer [14] although the 990 form for 1998 already mentioned
Mark Brandsdorfer instead of Mr. Hill) This Mark M. Brandsdorfer,
attorney at law for an organized crime operation:
http://www.desmogblog.com/sites/beta...r%20threat.pdf


Sugardaddies to Singer-Seitz-Ames include the Killer Koch Brother of
Koch Industries:
http://www.exxonsecrets.org/em.php?mapid=150
http://www.exxonsecrets.org/em.php?mapid=159
http://www.exxonsecrets.org/em.php?mapid=161
http://www.exxonsecrets.org/em.php?mapid=162
http://www.exxonsecrets.org/em.php?mapid=93
http://www.exxonsecrets.org/em.php?mapid=112
http://www.exxonsecrets.org/em.php?mapid=114

Documents from the Dossier on Career Criminal Organized Crime
Fraudster S. FRED SINGER
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.e...2421224e3abb1d

MORE Documents from the Dossier on Career Criminal Organized Crime
Fraudster S. FRED SINGER
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.e...75a042a3ac7de6

AND MORE Documents from the Dossier on Career Criminal Organized Crime
Fraudster S. FRED SINGER
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.e...c212343615d03f

ANOTHER Career Criminal Organized Crime Fraud of S. FRED SINGER in
2001
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.e...e71a1fba85f0ec

On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 23:44:16 -0400, Bob Brown . wrote:

So, you don't believe that there have been ice ages?

Yes, but I don't believe 20K years ago it was "a mile thick",
especially anywhere NEAR populated areas of today.

There were no humans in North or South America
20,000 years ago if lack of bones is an indication.

Since then, there are bones to show the migration
of Asians across the land bridge at that time into Alaska
and down the West Coast to become the descendants
of most western American Indians.

So without humans, your objection on the basis
of population centers seems weak.

And I am not convinced man is causing warming
with CO2 emissions.

Joe Fischer

In article , Bob Brown . wrote:
On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 16:27:57 -0000, (Robert Grumbine)
wrote:

In article , Bob Brown . wrote:
On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 16:56:14 -0500, Joe Fischer
wrote:

I am sure that 20,000 years a ago, where I am,
the temperature was 50 degrees colder, because
ice was a mile thick here, so I am sure it is warmer
now, but I have not seen any evidence that there
is an "upward trend".

Do you live on the Pole?

20K years ago a mile, or so, thick of ice? Hmmm , sounds like crazy
talk to me.

So, you don't believe that there have been ice ages?

Yes, but I don't believe 20K years ago it was "a mile thick",
especially anywhere NEAR populated areas of today.

Look up the CLIMAP reconstruction or any other more recent
version. Then identify the location of Chicago, Detroit, and
Toronto.

Perhaps quicker: How old do you think the earth is?

According to science, about 5 BILLION years.

4.55

Disappointed I didn't say 6,000?

Actually, you didn't answer. Question wasn't what science
had to say, but what _you_ thought was the case.

--
Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links.
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they
would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences

On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 05:35:17 -0500, Joe Fischer
wrote:

On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 23:44:16 -0400, Bob Brown . wrote:

So, you don't believe that there have been ice ages?

Yes, but I don't believe 20K years ago it was "a mile thick",
especially anywhere NEAR populated areas of today.

There were no humans in North or South America
20,000 years ago if lack of bones is an indication.

Since then, there are bones to show the migration
of Asians across the land bridge at that time into Alaska
and down the West Coast to become the descendants
of most western American Indians.

So without humans, your objection on the basis
of population centers seems weak.

And I am not convinced man is causing warming
with CO2 emissions.

Joe Fischer

What about the "mile thick" of ice comment made earlier in this
thread?

On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 16:22:44 -0400, Bob Brown . wrote:

What about the "mile thick" of ice comment made earlier in this
thread?

What about it, that was long before recorded
history, and the proxy CO2 data may show much
lower levels of CO2 than today, but warming was
taking place rapidly, and few men on Earth.

The remark was to show that warming took
place even though man could not have caused it,
it doesn't mean that CO2 or other factors could
not add to or reduce the warming.

Man can definitely reduce the warming by
reflecting part of the visible light back to space,
that is my contribution, but those who want to
tax or sell carbon credits are fighting the only
thing that can be implemented quickly without
people freezing and starving.

Joe Fischer

On Mar 30, 3:20 pm, Joe Fischer wrote:

Man can definitely reduce the warming by
reflecting part of the visible light back to space,
that is my contribution, but those who want to
tax or sell carbon credits are fighting the only
thing that can be implemented quickly without
people freezing and starving.

Joe Fischer

If you are CERTAIN that man can affect Earth temperature by reflecting
heat energy, why then are you so resistant to the scientific consensus
that man is increasing warming by putting out gases that retard escape
of heat energy?

FRED SINGER'S SEPPtic Tank
Stink tank has accumulated nice nearly $1 million retirement fund for
Singer any time the compliant board decides to bestow it on him. Has
interesting portfolio of stocks donated over the years, looking at
their IRS 990 report forms.

Besides listing three dead guys on it's board of science advisors
(presumably whom have advised by seance for 3, 5 and 7 years now), the
industry puppets on board are interesting.

Board of Science Advisors

* Bruce N. Ames (1928- ) Known tobacco shill on the payroll of
British-American Tobacco. http://www.exxonsecrets.org/em.php?mapid=95
Participated in corrupt operation of ICSE in Paris, 2003. George C.
Marshall Inst., CFACT, Reason Foundation, SEPP. Signed Liezieg,
Heidelberg Appeal, OISM petition. TASSC (Philip Morris Tobacco,
convicted racketeer, front group for science crimes) Science Advisor.

* C.J.F. Böttcher (1915- ) Heidelberg Appeal scam, HAN, ESEF.
Funded by Shell Oil and two Dutch auto front groups, RJ Reyonlds
Tobacco.. Signed Liepzig. Founding member of The Club of Rome often
ridiculed by rightwingers for alarmism.

* Tor Ragnar Gerholm (1925- ) Moonie like Singer, ESEF fraud
operator, signed Leipzig Declaration.
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php...onment_F orum

* Michael J. Higatsberger (1924-2004) Moonie like Singer. Leipzig
Declaration.

* Henry R. Linden (1920s- ) first president of the Gas Research
Institute, received Exxon-sponsored Storch award as far back as 1967.
Leipzig Declaration.

* Sir William Mitchell (1925-2002) Involved in ESEF fraud
organization. Leipzig Declaration.

* William A. Nierenberg (1919-2000) was a member of the Board of
Directors of the George C. Marshall Institute run by tobacco racketeer
Fred Seitz, board member of SEPP. Leipzig Declaration.

* Michel Salomon (1927- ) Corrupt head of ICSE science fraud
operation founded in Paris in 1993, particpant in several Singer fraud
operations. ESEF crook.

* Chauncey Starr (1912- ) founded the 'Electric Power Research
Institute', researching coal power, signed the Leipzig Declaration on
Global Climate Change "As independent scientists concerned with
atmospheric and climate problems ..."


SEPPtic Tank's Board of Directors:

Board of Directors

* S. Fred Singer, (1924- ) President. In a September 24, 1993,
sworn affidavit, Dr. Singer admitted to doing climate change research
on behalf of oil companies, such as Exxon, Texaco, Arco, Shell and the
American Gas Association. TASSC (Philip Morris Tobacco front group
for science crimes) Science Advisor.
http://www.exxonsecrets.org/em.php?mapid=95

* Frederick Seitz,(1911- ) Chairman. Tobacco shill once had his
likeness used for an RJ Reynold Tobacco ad campaign "9 out of 10
Doctors prefer Camels". Received over $660,000 (on the books, under
the table?) from RJR convicted racketeers over 16 years. Headed George
C. Marshall crime organization. Participated in multiple Singer frauds
since 1993. TASSC (Philip Morris Tobacco front group for science
crimes) Science Advisor.
http://www.exxonsecrets.org/em.php?mapid=367

* Charles Gelman, (1931- ) Super kook, fined $1 million dollars,
plus $4 million clean-up for 1,4-dioxane pollution from his factory.
Sued and attacked environmentalist who made him clean up his mess.

* David L. Hill (1919- ) (officially replaced in 2000 by Mark M.
Brandsdorfer [14] although the 990 form for 1998 already mentioned
Mark Brandsdorfer instead of Mr. Hill) This Mark M. Brandsdorfer,
attorney at law for an organized crime operation:
http://www.desmogblog.com/sites/beta...r%20threat.pdf


Sugardaddies to Singer-Seitz-Ames include the Killer Koch Brother of
Koch Industries:
http://www.exxonsecrets.org/em.php?mapid=150
http://www.exxonsecrets.org/em.php?mapid=159
http://www.exxonsecrets.org/em.php?mapid=161
http://www.exxonsecrets.org/em.php?mapid=162
http://www.exxonsecrets.org/em.php?mapid=93
http://www.exxonsecrets.org/em.php?mapid=112
http://www.exxonsecrets.org/em.php?mapid=114

Documents from the Dossier on Career Criminal Organized Crime
Fraudster S. FRED SINGER
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.e...2421224e3abb1d

MORE Documents from the Dossier on Career Criminal Organized Crime
Fraudster S. FRED SINGER
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.e...75a042a3ac7de6

AND MORE Documents from the Dossier on Career Criminal Organized Crime
Fraudster S. FRED SINGER
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.e...c212343615d03f

ANOTHER Career Criminal Organized Crime Fraud of S. FRED SINGER in
2001
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.e...e71a1fba85f0ec

On 30 Mar 2007 16:31:56 -0700, "Crackpot Lemmings Goosestepping Off
Cliffs" wrote:

On Mar 30, 3:20 pm, Joe Fischer wrote:
Man can definitely reduce the warming by
reflecting part of the visible light back to space,
that is my contribution, but those who want to
tax or sell carbon credits are fighting the only
thing that can be implemented quickly without
people freezing and starving.
Joe Fischer

If you are CERTAIN that man can affect Earth temperature by reflecting
heat energy, why then are you so resistant to the scientific consensus
that man is increasing warming by putting out gases that retard escape
of heat energy?

The only thing I am certain of is that you are
trying to make liberal democrats and socialists look bad
by being a vulgar pest who hates Exxon.

The poster who suggested that all cattle be
slaughtered and only veal produced for market is
the funny one, possibly a joke that takes a while
to sink in, but it is on the same level of thought
as the idea of conservation and carbon neutral
alternate fuels holding CO2 levels low enough
to avoid more warming.

And another message that said forest and
brush fires and burning peat is what caused the
recent cooling that prevented the full effect of
CO2 is another gem, maybe the response to
more CO2 should be less pollution control.

It is certain that if people are denied the
fuel needed for space heating they will burn
more wood and I dread that prospect because
the chimneys today are not high enough and
the smoke is really smelly.

My position on global warming because
of increased CO2 emissions is more wait and
see, rather than resistance to the premise,
but I do not deny that there may be global
warming which may or may not be man made
or may or may not be because of increased CO2.

But you should be glad not everybody
agrees with you, it gives you the chance to write
more trash to make the democrat party and the
liberals and leftist wolf pack look bad, only you
may be wrong about how intelligent the moderate
democrat and independent voter is.

Joe Fischer

On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 18:20:18 -0500, Joe Fischer
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 16:22:44 -0400, Bob Brown . wrote:

What about the "mile thick" of ice comment made earlier in this
thread?

What about it, that was long before recorded
history, and the proxy CO2 data may show much
lower levels of CO2 than today, but warming was
taking place rapidly, and few men on Earth.

The remark was to show that warming took
place even though man could not have caused it,
it doesn't mean that CO2 or other factors could
not add to or reduce the warming.

If someone can claim a "mile thick" of ice 20K years ago then I guess
this opens the doors for all kind of claims.

Thanks for opening that door for me, and millions of others.

On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 23:24:09 -0500, Joe Fischer
wrote:

On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 22:45:45 -0400, Bob Brown . wrote:

If someone can claim a "mile thick" of ice 20K years ago then I guess
this opens the doors for all kind of claims.

Thanks for opening that door for me, and millions of others.

I thought it was well known, just a fact, not meant
to cause controversy.

http://www.cr.nps.gov/archeology/eam/glaciers.htm


And regarding temperature;

"The best evidence seems to suggest that, globally, the average air
temperature was cooler by some 6 to 12° Celsius, and that daily
temperature at latitudes such as Indiana fluctuated seasonally almost as
much as they do today."

http://igs.indiana.edu/Geology/ancie...rame/index.cfm

Joe Fischer


ONE MILE THICK ICE?

Are you certain?