On Jan 20, 2:47*pm, I R A Darth Aggie wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 07:35:13 -0800 (PST),
, in

wrote:
+ *Your average TV Weatherman is not generally a true meteorologist, has
+ *never launched a weather balloon with a radiosonde attached, and lacks
+ *the physics background to construct a pseudoadiabatic diagram from the
+ *resulting information gained, or to interpret it.

That's a really broad brush you're paiting with there, partner.

A large number of the TV crowd actually hold a BS in meteorlogy or
atmospheric physics. Thus not only do they have the physics background
to construct a pseudoadiabatic diagram, but they can also suggest an
analysis, as well as tell you why a skew-t log p chart is perfered
over a Stuve diagram.

However, an equally large number of them will have *never* actually
launched a radiosonde. That's really "for" met-techs in the NWS or Air
Force, or aerographer's mates in the Navy.

Having done a couple of launches myself, that's unfortunate. It is a
nice hands-on, real world application what the students have been
shown in the classroom. And it is kind of fun, too.

--
Consulting Minister for Consultants, DNRC
I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow
isn't looking good, either.
I am BOFH. Resistance is futile. Your network will be assimilated.

It's clear that you know the subject to a technical level since you
know the terminology (and that is not intended as a put down in any
way), Still, for anyone pursuing a degree in physics with a specialty
in Meteorolgy, at least from any major university, they will have done
at least two balloon lauches ard interpreted the radiosonde results as
a lab requirement. These are the same students that a year or two
earlier would have been measuring the charge on an electron by
repeating the "Oil Drop" experiment (******* and boring experiment
that it is), every physics student has to perform it.

If you really want to know what is worse, take a Geology elective. In
that subject, the field trips can actually get you arrested. Then too,
all of the class and the prof were nearly arrested when I took that
course. OK, the point here is that you don't pull over and stop a bus
on the PA Turnpike, simply to explore an interesting geological
formation. We did! PA State Police were not pleased, even though we
were off the roadway.

For college student in liberal arts, try an elective in science,
particualy one that involves labs and field trips. Meteorolgy and
Geology are particularly fun choices, where you receive experiences
that you will remember for a lifetime. You too may even get
arrested. :-)

Harry C.

Still, for anyone pursuing a degree in physics with a specialty
in Meteorolgy, at least from any major university, they will have done
at least two balloon lauches ard interpreted the radiosonde results as
a lab requirement. These are the same students that a year or two
earlier would have been measuring the charge on an electron by
repeating the "Oil Drop" experiment (******* and boring experiment
that it is), every physics student has to perform it.

In the "Oil Drop" experiment charged droplets migrate up in the electric
field. If all students perform this experiment than all meteorologist should
know that the charged water droplets migrate up in the Earth electric field.
And that all water droplets in clouds have the excess of electrons
(negatively charged). Why when in meteorology some parts of clouds are
positively (deficit of electrons) charged?
S*

On Jan 21, 5:06*am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:


Still, for anyone pursuing a degree in physics with a specialty

in Meteorolgy, at least from any major university, they will have done
at least two balloon lauches ard interpreted the radiosonde results as
a lab requirement. These are the same students that a year or two
earlier would have been measuring the charge on an electron by
repeating the "Oil Drop" experiment (******* and boring experiment
that it is), every physics student has to perform it.

In the "Oil Drop" experiment charged droplets migrate up in the electric
field. If all students perform this experiment than all meteorologist should
know that the charged water droplets migrate up in the Earth electric field.
And that all water droplets in clouds have the excess of electrons
(negatively charged). Why *when in meteorology some parts of *clouds are
positively (deficit of electrons) charged?
S*

Just to explain why I might hold such an openly opinionate view of
meterology, enter Dr. Francis Davis into my life.

http://www.angelfire.com/tv2/broadca...ers/davis.html

Dr. Davis was the local Philadelphia weatherman during the years that
I attended Drexel, and he was the professor of meteorolgy when I took
the subject as a physics elective while I was earning my undergraduate
degree. Dr. Davis was a somewhat harsh taskmaster, and his persona on
TV was nearly counter to the demands for performance that he placed on
his Drexel physics students (I believe there were only 21 of us during
those years), in a college of roughly 3,000 students (back around
1963). He was a very strict grader, and not one exam involved multiple
choice questions. All were computations, required to be performed in
ink in the dreaded Drexel "blue books". Most Drexel grads of that era
know exactly what I refer to.

Actually, at the time, I really liked the guy, but then I also liked
Dr. Tartler in the math department, who was generally believed to have
flunked his own son out of Drexel due to poor performance in math. The
profs at Drexel in those days were pretty "hard core" compared to what
exists today!

At the start of my senior year at Drexel (then Drexel Institute of
Technology), Dr. Davis replaced Dr. Wehr (a nuclear scientist) as head
of Drexel's Physics Department. That was the year that I graduated
and acquired my BS in Physics. So, I guess that you could say that my
undergraduate degree in physics was signed and approved by our local
Philadelphia, TV weatherman. Fortunately, that did no sway Princeton
from both accepting me into their graduate school, or hiring me as a
research employee at Forrestal.

Dr. Davis was a very interesting guy, who in my mind had a dual life
(of the best kind). On one hand he was the most popular TV weatherman
in the Philadelphia/NJ/Delaware area, and at that same time was a
respected physicist. Few people can compete with that!

I post this simply to let readers know the foundations that form the
basis of my blunt opinions. Opinions that if they offend anyone, then
that's just too damn bad.

Harry C.

On Jan 21, 3:56 pm, " wrote:
On Jan 21, 5:06 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:





Still, for anyone pursuing a degree in physics with a specialty

in Meteorolgy, at least from any major university, they will have done
at least two balloon lauches ard interpreted the radiosonde results as
a lab requirement. These are the same students that a year or two
earlier would have been measuring the charge on an electron by
repeating the "Oil Drop" experiment (******* and boring experiment
that it is), every physics student has to perform it.

In the "Oil Drop" experiment charged droplets migrate up in the electric
field. If all students perform this experiment than all meteorologist should
know that the charged water droplets migrate up in the Earth electric field.
And that all water droplets in clouds have the excess of electrons
(negatively charged). Why when in meteorology some parts of clouds are
positively (deficit of electrons) charged?
S*

Just to explain why I might hold such an openly opinionate view of
meterology, enter Dr. Francis Davis into my life.

http://www.angelfire.com/tv2/broadca...ers/davis.html

Dr. Davis was the local Philadelphia weatherman during the years that
I attended Drexel, and he was the professor of meteorolgy when I took
the subject as a physics elective while I was earning my undergraduate
degree. Dr. Davis was a somewhat harsh taskmaster, and his persona on
TV was nearly counter to the demands for performance that he placed on
his Drexel physics students (I believe there were only 21 of us during
those years), in a college of roughly 3,000 students (back around
1963). He was a very strict grader, and not one exam involved multiple
choice questions. All were computations, required to be performed in
ink in the dreaded Drexel "blue books". Most Drexel grads of that era
know exactly what I refer to.

Actually, at the time, I really liked the guy, but then I also liked
Dr. Tartler in the math department, who was generally believed to have
flunked his own son out of Drexel due to poor performance in math. The
profs at Drexel in those days were pretty "hard core" compared to what
exists today!

At the start of my senior year at Drexel (then Drexel Institute of
Technology), Dr. Davis replaced Dr. Wehr (a nuclear scientist) as head
of Drexel's Physics Department. That was the year that I graduated
and acquired my BS in Physics. So, I guess that you could say that my
undergraduate degree in physics was signed and approved by our local
Philadelphia, TV weatherman. Fortunately, that did no sway Princeton
from both accepting me into their graduate school, or hiring me as a
research employee at Forrestal.

Dr. Davis was a very interesting guy, who in my mind had a dual life
(of the best kind). On one hand he was the most popular TV weatherman
in the Philadelphia/NJ/Delaware area, and at that same time was a
respected physicist. Few people can compete with that!

I post this simply to let readers know the foundations that form the
basis of my blunt opinions. Opinions that if they offend anyone, then
that's just too damn bad.

Harry C.

Say Harry, ((Harry)), I reed yor posts to lurn beter
spelin an gramer.
Seriously, IMHO you're a top poster.
Regards
Ken

Ken, thanks yer very much for you comments.

I post on the fly, without a spelling or grammar checker, but I do
post completly honestly, and you can bet on that.

My wire is the grammare and spelling export, I'm simply a physucist
that was originally intended to be a tennant farmer in NJ. The wire,
she taches s;elling to kids that are, while not riding the short bus,
and in need of help. She has this amazing ability to bring kids that
are 3-years below grade level, up to grade level in about 6-months.
Fer me, this is amzing, and I wsh that she could do it for me.

Sandy is one of those few amazing people that you encounter in a
lifetime, totally devoted to her students, and she obtains incredible
results. Our house is flooded by flowers at the end of each school
year, not sure that I know why, because she hasn't yet even mastered
differential calculus!

What a combination we two are, but regardless we were married on July
11, 1959, and if I can still do simple arithmetic, by July 11, 2009 we
will celebrate our 50th anniversity. The bad thing is that none of our
close friends will be alive to notice that event, except for our 3
children and a couple of our neighbors. Definitely, firworks will be
shot, and I doubt that the police will take notice.

Ogh, thixs is sci.physics, I lust trek thare and thought that for a
mombnet, it was rec.pyrotechnics.

Harry C.

p.s., Beware of the 'Old Farts' that you may encounter from time to
time on the Newsgroups. Many will play dumb, but anthing else may be
true. You never know!

wrote
...
On Jan 21, 5:06 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:


Still, for anyone pursuing a degree in physics with a specialty
in Meteorolgy, at least from any major university, they will have done
at least two balloon lauches ard interpreted the radiosonde results as
a lab requirement. These are the same students that a year or two
earlier would have been measuring the charge on an electron by
repeating the "Oil Drop" experiment (******* and boring experiment
that it is), every physics student has to perform it.

In the "Oil Drop" experiment charged droplets migrate up in the electric
field. If all students perform this experiment than all meteorologist
should
know that the charged water droplets migrate up in the Earth electric
field.
And that all water droplets in clouds have the excess of electrons
(negatively charged). ?
S*

Just to explain why I might hold such an openly opinionate view of
meterology, enter Dr. Francis Davis into my life.

http://www.angelfire.com/tv2/broadca...ers/davis.html

But my question was: "Why then in meteorology some parts of clouds are
positively (deficit of electrons) charged?

We can read everywhe "How rain clouds become charged is not fully
understood, but most rain clouds are negatively charged at the base and
positively charged at the top"

It is impossible. Each part of each cloud is negatively charged. Only the
voltages may be different In meteorology should be tha same laws as in
physics.

S*

On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 12:30:16 -0800 (PST),
, in
wrote:

+ Still, for anyone pursuing a degree in physics with a specialty
+ in Meteorolgy, at least from any major university, they will have done
+ at least two balloon lauches ard interpreted the radiosonde results as
+ a lab requirement.

Care to name universities? having attended meteorology programs at
St. Louis University and Texas A&M, as well as close observation of
Florida State's program, I can assure you that *none* of them offer
the above lab.

Now, that may have changed over the last few years, but it wasn't true
when I was student. I'm really curious which institutes of higher
learning actually offer such a hands-on project.

--
Consulting Minister for Consultants, DNRC
I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow
isn't looking good, either.
I am BOFH. Resistance is futile. Your network will be assimilated.

On Jan 22, 11:26*am, I R A Darth Aggie wrote:
On Sun, 20 Jan 2008 12:30:16 -0800 (PST),
, in

wrote:
+ *Still, for anyone pursuing a degree in physics with a specialty
+ *in Meteorolgy, at least from any major university, they will have done
+ *at least two balloon lauches ard interpreted the radiosonde results as
+ *a lab requirement.

Care to name universities? having attended meteorology programs at
St. Louis University and Texas A&M, as well as close observation of
Florida State's program, I can assure you that *none* of them offer
the above lab.

Hey, Darth, have you taken any courses from a buddy of
mine from grad school, Chuck Graves, at St. Loius or my
former boss, Gerry North, at A&M?

BTW my program didn't launch any balloons either, and
I don't think students do where I am now, either. Kind of
a shame, though, since it would probably be fun as well
as instructive. Actually gathering data can provide insights
into potential errors which one may face later when doing
analysis.

Cheers,
Russell

On Tue, 22 Jan 2008 08:44:20 -0800 (PST),
Russell , in
wrote:
+ On Jan 22, 11:26*am, I R A Darth Aggie wrote:

+ Care to name universities? having attended meteorology programs at
+ St. Louis University and Texas A&M, as well as close observation of
+ Florida State's program, I can assure you that *none* of them offer
+ the above lab.
+
+ Hey, Darth, have you taken any courses from a buddy of
+ mine from grad school, Chuck Graves, at St. Loius or my
+ former boss, Gerry North, at A&M?

The name Chuck Graves sounds familiar, but I didn't take any classes
from him. I was there back in the day when Parks College of SLU was
still over in Cahokia, so we were a seperate, aviation oriented
splinter group. Ben Able was our main instructor, he "moonlighted" as
KMOX's forecaster.

Now that they've combined the two campuses, I'd imagine the splinter
group was subsumed into the SLU Met Department. But that was after I'd
fled. I'm still allergic to Jesuits. :-)

I missed out on Gerry North at least as far as taking classes. I was
just about finished up when we first came to A&M. We had interviewed
him, and thought it would be a great hire. I think he's been the
department chair for awhile.

+ Actually gathering data can provide insights
+ into potential errors which one may face later when doing
+ analysis.

Indeed. It would only prove my axiom that "real world data is messy".

--
Consulting Minister for Consultants, DNRC
I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow
isn't looking good, either.
I am BOFH. Resistance is futile. Your network will be assimilated.