On Jul 9, 11:58 am, "z0n0b" wrote:
"Fran" wrote in message

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On Jul 9, 10:44 am, "z0n0b" wrote:





"Fran" wrote in message

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On Jul 8, 4:20 pm, "z0n0b" wrote:

"Fran" wrote in message

...
On Jul 8, 2:27 pm, Benj wrote:

On Jul 7, 11:41 pm, Fran wrote:

EVIL CO2!

You must have proponents of mitigation confused with someone who
thinks CO2 is evil. I appreciate that you rightwingers find moving
beyond manichean categorisation intellectually challenging. Maybe
it's
the curse you religionists suffer, but give it a try.

Nice vocabulary, Fran. It is too bad like most liberals

oooh ... one mistake already. I'm no liberal. Ask anyone who pays
attention.

you can't say
anything logically coherent using any of it. I would have used the
word "animistic" rather than manichean.

I was asserting that the rightwingers were unable to move beyond
simple dualities -- in this case good and evil.
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Huh?
What on earth does an atheist mean by "good" and "evil"??????????????

Nothing at all. These terms are, IMO, the proeprty of religionists.
Can't you read for meaning?

If they were to think their positions through properly, these two terms
would be totally meaningless.

Been there done that a very long time ago.

After all an atheistic universe is NECESSARILY totally chaotic and
amoral.

We atheists have no general view about whether the universe is chaotic
and amoral. Atheism is simply the view that that gods and spirits
don't exist (or a disbelief in their existence). It doesn't prescribe
what else we think about life, the universe or anything else. Atheists
express a range of views.
======================================

Oh yes it does.
So, are you telling me that a belief that the universe is NOT chaotic and
amoral is an option for an atheist then?

Atheism is nothing more than a negative declaration on the truth
status of the notion of god. I'm a 'strong' atheist, meaning that I am
convinced that such a thing as god (or gods) cannot exist -- the
concept being inevitably a paradox. I decla there is no god. Other
atheists are weaker, merely decalring an abscence of positive belief
in god -- they see no positive reason for including god in their
efforts to seek insight into the nature of the world.

Neither of these broad positions entails beleifs about chaos in the
universe or the character of any moral values contained within.
======================================

Huh?
It follows LOGICALLY that if there is no God then the universe is OF
NECESSITY chaotic and amoral.


It doesn't. There are physical laws governing motion, states of matter
etc. To sday the system is "chaotic" implies that there are no
physical laws -- which position, if one accepted it, would create
space for god, who is of course, in the conception of him, able to
make it up as he goes along.

Of course what is chaotic is not the universe but our perceptions of
it, since, clearly, our knowledge is partial -- infinitessimal really
-- and our ability to model this complexity constrained by our ability
to gather data and process reliably in real time. It's easier to speak
of this condition as "chaos".

I cannot begin to imagine how a universe could be "moral" but I leave
other atheists who want to assert it is to sort that one out.

In any event, this is my view. It's not necessarily shared by all
atheists.

Think about it!


BTDT ...

Fran