On Dec 7, 6:37*am, Surfer wrote:
On Mon, 7 Dec 2009 18:15:37 +1100, "Peter Webb"

wrote:

Making the original data available for review is part of the scientific
process.

False.

False?


The scientific process requires that results can be independently
confirmed.

Yeah. Now address the issue.



The ideal way is for each group to independently make its own
measurements and record its own raw data. *

Bull****. CRU is hiding data. There is no excuse for this.



If different groups used the same raw data, then their results would
not be truely independent.

In the case we are considering:https://www.uea.ac.uk/mac/comm/media.../nov/CRUupdate

Start extract

There is excellent agreement on the course of temperature change since
1881 between the data set that we contribute to (HadCRUT3) and two
other, independent analyses of worldwide temperature measurements.
There are no statistically significant differences between the warming
trends in the three series since the start of the 20th century. The
three independent global temperature data series have been assembled
by:

• CRU and the Met Office Hadley Centre (HadCRUT3) in the UK.
• The National Climatic Data Center (NCDC) of the National
Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) in Asheville, NC,
USA.
• The Goddard Institute of Space Studies (GISS), part of the National
Aeronautic and Space Administration (NASA) in New York.

The warming shown by the HadCRUT3 series between the averages of the
two periods (1850-99 and 2001-2005) was 0.76±0.19°C, and this is
corroborated by the other two data sets.

End extract

From a scientific point of view this is adequate confirmation.

On Mon, 7 Dec 2009 09:18:05 -0800 (PST), Claudius Denk
wrote:

On Dec 7, 6:37*am, Surfer wrote:
On Mon, 7 Dec 2009 18:15:37 +1100, "Peter Webb"

wrote:

Making the original data available for review is part of the scientific
process.

False.

False?


The scientific process requires that results can be independently
confirmed.

Yeah. Now address the issue.



The ideal way is for each group to independently make its own
measurements and record its own raw data. *

Bull****. CRU is hiding data. There is no excuse for this.

That's a political consideration. Private companies that do scientific
research are under no obligation to reveal their raw data.

From a scientific point of view it makes no difference.

In science the important thing is whether or not results can be
independently confirmed by other research groups.

CRU has published its results and other research groups have obtained
similar results.

That is sufficient to confirm that CRU's results are basically sound.

Eg. GISS (Goddard Institute for Space Studies) Surface Temperature
Analysis got simlar results to CRU.
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/

Incidentally GISS seems to be making its data and computer programs
publically available.

http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/

Start extract

Programs used in the GISTEMP analysis and documentation on their use
are available for download. The programs assume a Unix-like operating
system and require familiarity with FORTRAN, C and Python for
installation and use.

snip

Table Data: Global and Zonal Mean Anomalies dTs

Plain text files in tabular format of temperature anomalies. Anomaly
values indicate the difference from the corresponding 1951-1980 means.

* Global-mean monthly, annual and seasonal dTs based on met.station data, 1880-present, updated through most recent month
* Northern Hemisphere-mean monthly, annual and seasonal dTs based on met.station data, 1880-present, updated through most recent month
* Southern Hemisphere-mean monthly, annual and seasonal dTs based on met.station data, 1880-present, updated through most recent month
* Global-mean monthly, annual and seasonal land-ocean temperature index, 1880-present, updated through most recent month
* Northern Hemisphere-mean monthly, annual and seasonal land-ocean temperature index, 1880-present, updated through most recent month
* Southern Hemisphere-mean monthly, annual and seasonal land-ocean temperature index, 1880-present, updated through most recent month
* Zonal-mean annual dTs, 1880-present, updated through most recent complete calendar year
* Zonal-mean annual land-ocean temperature index, 1880-present, updated through most recent completed year

End extract

That may allow you to check how the results were obtained, if you
really wish to do so.