Hi,

Just wondering if anyone knew of any links on the web that went into the
formation of tornadoes within hurricanes? For example the kinds of numbers
of them that occur, and how powerful they are when combined with the
windspeed of the hurricane itself. Are there any case studies of individual
tornadoes that have formed within hurricanes, or is the general damage
caused by the storm usually too great to be able to see a defined track?

Simon

Simon wrote:
Hi,

Just wondering if anyone knew of any links on the web that went into the
formation of tornadoes within hurricanes? For example the kinds of numbers
of them that occur, and how powerful they are when combined with the
windspeed of the hurricane itself. Are there any case studies of individual
tornadoes that have formed within hurricanes, or is the general damage
caused by the storm usually too great to be able to see a defined track?

Simon



An experienced observer can tell the difference between straight line
and tornadic wind damage. Some of the footage that came from New Orleans
post Katrina suggested to me that tornadoes had been at work namely
lines of devastation with areas of less devastation on either side. A
Cat 5 is a breeze compared to a T5!

Googling for tornadoes in hurricanes got me precious little. I'm sure
Harold Brooks could advect in at this point - and point you to
somewhere useful.... (:

Les

--
Les Crossan,
Wallsend, Tyne & Wear
54.95N 1.5W
Home of the Wallsend StormCam and the Backup USW FAQ -
www.uksevereweather.org.uk

Just wondering if anyone knew of any links on the web that went into the
formation of tornadoes within hurricanes? Simon
Googling for tornadoes in hurricanes got me precious little. I'm sure
Harold Brooks could advect in at this point - and point you to somewhere
useful.... (:

Les


Preempting HB see-
http://www.cimms.ou.edu/~schultz/pap...outetal05b.pdf

Tornado Outbreaks Associated with Landfalling Hurricanes by Verbout,
Schultz, Leslie, Brooks, Karoly, and Elmore
I'm sure he can add more,


--
regards,
David

add '17' to Waghorne to reply

Waghorn wrote:
Just wondering if anyone knew of any links on the web that went into the
formation of tornadoes within hurricanes? Simon

Googling for tornadoes in hurricanes got me precious little. I'm sure
Harold Brooks could advect in at this point - and point you to somewhere
useful.... (:

Les



Preempting HB see-
http://www.cimms.ou.edu/~schultz/pap...outetal05b.pdf

Tornado Outbreaks Associated with Landfalling Hurricanes by Verbout,
Schultz, Leslie, Brooks, Karoly, and Elmore
I'm sure he can add more,


Nice one Waghorn - didn't know you were back!

Cheers -

Les
--
Les Crossan,
Wallsend, Tyne & Wear
54.95N 1.5W
Home of the Wallsend StormCam and the Backup USW FAQ -
www.uksevereweather.org.uk

In article ,
says...

Just wondering if anyone knew of any links on the web that went into the
formation of tornadoes within hurricanes? Simon
Googling for tornadoes in hurricanes got me precious little. I'm sure
Harold Brooks could advect in at this point - and point you to somewhere
useful.... (:

Les


Preempting HB see-
http://www.cimms.ou.edu/~schultz/pap...outetal05b.pdf

Tornado Outbreaks Associated with Landfalling Hurricanes by Verbout,
Schultz, Leslie, Brooks, Karoly, and Elmore
I'm sure he can add more,


We learned this week that the paper was rejected, so I'm not sure what I
know.:-) BTW, if any of you are Reviewer B or C, I only have this to
say:

"Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelled of elder berry."

Back to the subject at hand, Bill McCaul is probably the world's expert
on hurricane-spawned tornadoes. He put some lecture notes on line at
http://www.asp.ucar.edu/colloquium/1998/mccaul.html.

Most hurricane-spawned tornadoes are the right-front quadrant of storms
as they approach landfall or after landfall moving from south to north.
As a result, most of the major outbreaks, at least, have occurred with
landfall on the Gulf Coast, east of Texas. Convective available
potential energy and low-level shear tend to be highest in that
quadrant. It's a shear-rich environment, even though CAPE isn't all
that high (typically less than 1000 J/kg). Most of them form in cells
in the outer rainbands. The tornadogenesis process isn't likely to be
very different from supercell processes in low-CAPE, high-shear
environments.

They tend to be shorter-lived and weaker than isolated supercell
tornadoes, probably because of the relatively small size of the storms
and the really strong shear ripping them apart.

HTH,

Harold

--
Harold Brooks
hebrooks87 hotmail.com

As an side I was looking at the RUC model during the landfall of Hurricane
Katrina - I was some what shocked to see 0-1km shear of over 1200 MsMs -
which is an astonishing amount - 200MsMs is good for big cranking central
plains tornados, while in the UK, 400 MsMs can be found (but we lack the
instability to go with this) I personally have never seen a tornado within
the rainbands of a hurricane (usually because I am looking for the eye) but
if I wanted to see a hurricane spawned tornado then I would aim for 30 miles
inland about 80 miles east(North gulf of Mexico) or North (Florida or east
coast) of where the eye would make landfall. Imprtant to keep well North or
East of the convective rainbands- as the cloud base decreases to about 500
feet around the eye, thus many hurricane tornados are rain wrapped.

//Stuart Robinson
TORRO



"Harold Brooks" wrote in message
t...
In article ,
says...

Just wondering if anyone knew of any links on the web that went into
the
formation of tornadoes within hurricanes? Simon
Googling for tornadoes in hurricanes got me precious little. I'm sure
Harold Brooks could advect in at this point - and point you to
somewhere
useful.... (:

Les


Preempting HB see-
http://www.cimms.ou.edu/~schultz/pap...outetal05b.pdf

Tornado Outbreaks Associated with Landfalling Hurricanes by Verbout,
Schultz, Leslie, Brooks, Karoly, and Elmore
I'm sure he can add more,


We learned this week that the paper was rejected, so I'm not sure what I
know.:-) BTW, if any of you are Reviewer B or C, I only have this to
say:

"Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelled of elder berry."

Back to the subject at hand, Bill McCaul is probably the world's expert
on hurricane-spawned tornadoes. He put some lecture notes on line at
http://www.asp.ucar.edu/colloquium/1998/mccaul.html.

Most hurricane-spawned tornadoes are the right-front quadrant of storms
as they approach landfall or after landfall moving from south to north.
As a result, most of the major outbreaks, at least, have occurred with
landfall on the Gulf Coast, east of Texas. Convective available
potential energy and low-level shear tend to be highest in that
quadrant. It's a shear-rich environment, even though CAPE isn't all
that high (typically less than 1000 J/kg). Most of them form in cells
in the outer rainbands. The tornadogenesis process isn't likely to be
very different from supercell processes in low-CAPE, high-shear
environments.

They tend to be shorter-lived and weaker than isolated supercell
tornadoes, probably because of the relatively small size of the storms
and the really strong shear ripping them apart.

HTH,

Harold

--
Harold Brooks
hebrooks87 hotmail.com