My son has just shown me this site. It has many small videos of aircraft.
Here are a couple showing landings is strong cross winds - scary stuff!!

http://www.flightlevel350.com/picwin...cat=19&pic=116

http://www.flightlevel350.com/picwin...cat=19&pic=152

They are about 2MB so would take some 8 minutes to see on 56k dial up.

--
Mike 55.13°N 6.69°W Coleraine posted to uk.sci.weather 31/12/2004 10:46:06 UTC

Indeed scary stuff, Great site
AJM , Morayshire.

"Mike Tullett" wrote in message
...
My son has just shown me this site. It has many small videos of aircraft.
Here are a couple showing landings is strong cross winds - scary stuff!!

http://www.flightlevel350.com/picwin...cat=19&pic=116

http://www.flightlevel350.com/picwin...cat=19&pic=152

They are about 2MB so would take some 8 minutes to see on 56k dial up.

--
Mike 55.13°N 6.69°W Coleraine posted to uk.sci.weather 31/12/2004
10:46:06 UTC

Awesome stuff. What was the pilot thinking in the second one! Maybe their
options had run out, fuel, stall etc. Wow those rudders.
------------------------------------------------------------
"Mike Tullett" wrote in message
...
My son has just shown me this site. It has many small videos of aircraft.
Here are a couple showing landings is strong cross winds - scary stuff!!

http://www.flightlevel350.com/picwin...cat=19&pic=116

http://www.flightlevel350.com/picwin...cat=19&pic=152

They are about 2MB so would take some 8 minutes to see on 56k dial up.

--
Mike 55.13°N 6.69°W Coleraine posted to uk.sci.weather 31/12/2004
10:46:06 UTC

Mike Tullett wrote:
My son has just shown me this site. It has many small videos of aircraft.
Here are a couple showing landings is strong cross winds - scary stuff!!

http://www.flightlevel350.com/picwin...cat=19&pic=116

http://www.flightlevel350.com/picwin...cat=19&pic=152

They are about 2MB so would take some 8 minutes to see on 56k dial up.

Ouch! You can certainly see why the airbus pilot bottled it. And the 747
landing is a very impressive display of airmanship (if there is such a word).

--
Thomas Sandford |
Paradise Green Technical Services: S'ware/Hw design and Theatre Tech. Services
Email to this address from commercial mailing lists constitutes unauthorised
computer access, and appropriate action will be taken against offenders.

On 31 Dec 2004 11:54:31 -0000, Thomas Sandford
wrote:

Mike Tullett wrote:
My son has just shown me this site. It has many small videos of aircraft.
Here are a couple showing landings is strong cross winds - scary stuff!!

http://www.flightlevel350.com/picwin...cat=19&pic=116

http://www.flightlevel350.com/picwin...cat=19&pic=152

They are about 2MB so would take some 8 minutes to see on 56k dial up.

Ouch! You can certainly see why the airbus pilot bottled it. And the 747
landing is a very impressive display of airmanship (if there is such a word).

Looks like a normal approach to Kai Tak.

BTW, I thought the rudder was only used for taxiing or correction in
severe turbulence.

JPG

"Mike Tullett" wrote in message
...
My son has just shown me this site. It has many small videos of aircraft.
Here are a couple showing landings is strong cross winds - scary stuff!!

http://www.flightlevel350.com/picwin...cat=19&pic=116

http://www.flightlevel350.com/picwin...cat=19&pic=152

I can reassure you all that I NEVER did landings as bad as either of those
two.

And to clear up a misunderstanding.
The rudder is not used for taxiing - but see below.
(except perhaps in some very old aircraft - modern ones have hydraulic nose
wheel steering)

The main purpose of the rudder is to balance the aircraft, in particular
when the thrust is asymmetric, eg following an engine failure.

In cross wind landing, it is routine in many aircraft (including those I
used to fly) to bank the aircraft into wind. However, banking an aircraft
makes it turn. You don't want to turn while landing, so cross controls are
used to counteract the turn that would be caused by banking, ie opposite
(top) rudder is used. So: wind from the right, right wing down, left rudder
applied. In gusty conditions, frequent small changes of rudder amount are
often required BUT CAUTION NOT TO OVERDO IT - that broke and Airbus in the
air a year or two ago.

After touching down on (eg) the right hand set of wheels, you lower the
other side to the ground meanwhile keeping it straight with the rudder.
Indeed, in any landing, cross wind or not, the aircraft is initially kept
straight by rudder but control transferred to nosewheel steering at an
appropriate speed, eg 70 - 80 knots. In some aircraft, the control locks,
including rudder, are then engaged so the rudder might not be able to be
moved at all at taxiing speeds - not that you would want to anyway.

Cross wind landings do require co-ordination and a degree of skill.
Perhaps, most important of all is to know your own and the aircraft's
limitations. I suspect that in both those clips, the pilot was distinctly
unwise. It is hard to know the precise weather and wind conditions, but I
would suspect that the wind was very close to (or even above) the aircraft's
crosswind limits. I even wonder if the Airbus Captain kept his job and
certainly I would have expected the 747 pilot to undergo refresher training.
But to be fair, I do not know the full story. For all I know, that Airbus
might have been doing pilot training without passengers.

Jack (retired airline captain)

As I understand it after reading an account with still pictures a few years
ago, the 747 was not a 'cross wind' issue.

It was a landing at the old Kai Tak airport, and the pilot had overshot
the 'dog leg' turn to get on to finals. Captain decided that he could land
it anway, and did so. Airmanship to get into that position in the first
place 0 out of 10, but a good recovery! Who would have thunk a 747 could
manouvre like that! From memory, just after the video stops, the 747 skidded
and tipped with its outboard engine hitting the ground. Obviously
frightening for those on board. Seemed to recall that all survived, though I
don't know if anybody was injured. Don't know what happened to the captain.

Take a look at the windsock at about 3 seconds in, bottom right. It does
not look very windy!

Cheers to all, and if anybody else can confirm or otherwise the above then
please do so. It was some years ago that I read about it.

Chris


"Jack Harrison" wrote in message
...

"Mike Tullett" wrote in message
...
My son has just shown me this site. It has many small videos of
aircraft.
Here are a couple showing landings is strong cross winds - scary stuff!!

http://www.flightlevel350.com/picwin...cat=19&pic=116

http://www.flightlevel350.com/picwin...cat=19&pic=152

I can reassure you all that I NEVER did landings as bad as either of those
two.

And to clear up a misunderstanding.
The rudder is not used for taxiing - but see below.
(except perhaps in some very old aircraft - modern ones have hydraulic
nose wheel steering)

The main purpose of the rudder is to balance the aircraft, in particular
when the thrust is asymmetric, eg following an engine failure.

In cross wind landing, it is routine in many aircraft (including those I
used to fly) to bank the aircraft into wind. However, banking an aircraft
makes it turn. You don't want to turn while landing, so cross controls
are used to counteract the turn that would be caused by banking, ie
opposite (top) rudder is used. So: wind from the right, right wing down,
left rudder applied. In gusty conditions, frequent small changes of
rudder amount are often required BUT CAUTION NOT TO OVERDO IT - that broke
and Airbus in the air a year or two ago.

After touching down on (eg) the right hand set of wheels, you lower the
other side to the ground meanwhile keeping it straight with the rudder.
Indeed, in any landing, cross wind or not, the aircraft is initially kept
straight by rudder but control transferred to nosewheel steering at an
appropriate speed, eg 70 - 80 knots. In some aircraft, the control locks,
including rudder, are then engaged so the rudder might not be able to be
moved at all at taxiing speeds - not that you would want to anyway.

Cross wind landings do require co-ordination and a degree of skill.
Perhaps, most important of all is to know your own and the aircraft's
limitations. I suspect that in both those clips, the pilot was distinctly
unwise. It is hard to know the precise weather and wind conditions, but I
would suspect that the wind was very close to (or even above) the
aircraft's crosswind limits. I even wonder if the Airbus Captain kept his
job and certainly I would have expected the 747 pilot to undergo refresher
training. But to be fair, I do not know the full story. For all I know,
that Airbus might have been doing pilot training without passengers.

Jack (retired airline captain)

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 14:08:14 -0000, Jack Harrison wrote in
t
big snip
Jack (retired airline captain)

Jack - just wondering if you ever put on a Dutch accent as the pilot of
this had one:-) BTW it is a joke commercial.

http://www.flightlevel350.com/picwin...cat=19&pic=879


--
Mike 55.13°N 6.69°W Coleraine posted to uk.sci.weather 31/12/2004 16:39:55 UTC

"Mike Tullett" wrote
Jack - just wondering if you ever put on a Dutch accent as the pilot of
this had one:-) BTW it is a joke commercial.

http://www.flightlevel350.com/picwin...cat=19&pic=879

I love it. I did in fact work for KLM UK after we (Air UK) were taken over
just before I retired. But I was never required to learn to speak with a
Dutch accent.

Jack