Quoting from message
.com
posted on 1 Dec 2005 by JPG
I would like to add:


Elaine Jones wrote:

Quoting from message
posted on 30 Nov 2005 by nevillef


Don't know where you and your geography teacher were but mine was
saying the same forty years ago, whilst also remarking on the fact
that many of the coal deposits were formed from tree ferns, which
required much higher average temperatures than have been experienced
in the British Isles for quite some time.

That was more down to whole contenents moving about the face of the
earth, rather than ocean currents shifting.

Thanks - it may have been pointed out - but my memory is not as
efficient as it used to be.


--
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Graham P Davis wrote:

In the new circulation, the NAD would cease to exist. The Gulf Stream would
be a closed anticyclonic circulation with its warm water probably extending
no further north than 45N.

Would that fuel more and more powerful hurricanes?

--

Peter

I must admit this , usually when i post get a flood of insults
and arguments and kill file warnings... but this time
its all good and people discussing.

Have i changed that much?

Interesting replies btw, glad most agree
on the theory of a colder uk

"nguk" wrote in message
...
I must admit this , usually when i post get a flood of insults
and arguments and kill file warnings... but this time
its all good and people discussing.

Have i changed that much?

Interesting replies btw, glad most agree
on the theory of a colder uk



LOL Neil, people haven't insulted you because they have already kill-filed you
and don't see your posts unless somebody quotes them.

Ooops :-)

Will.
--

Peter Hayes wrote:

Graham P Davis wrote:

In the new circulation, the NAD would cease to exist. The Gulf Stream
would be a closed anticyclonic circulation with its warm water probably
extending no further north than 45N.

Would that fuel more and more powerful hurricanes?


Hadn't thought about that but it seems probable. I suppose one way of
looking at it could be that if one route for carrying heat from the Tropics
is closed down (NAD), then would hurricanes have to carry more of the
burden?

--
Graham Davis
Bracknell

Col wrote:


"Ian Bartholomew" wrote in message
...
nguk wrote:
Scientists are saying, that new research is contradicting
global warming and saying that if the ice caps further
break off and or melt then the uk is at risk of getting
much colder!

Myself ive been saying this for years sigh..

So have the scientists. GW melts the icecaps, the desalination of the
North Atlantic stops the gulf stream and we get cold. How is this "new
research". There was even a "Horizon" about it a couple of years ago.

It's not, basically. Even I've known about it for at least 5 years so it
must have been knocking around in the scientific community for some time
before that.

As I pointed out before, I first read about the NAD sudden shut-downs 40
years ago. Long enough for some so-called scientists to claim it as a new
idea. What they have found is an explanation of the mechanics for the
switching-off of the NAD. They have gone too far in claiming that they
discovered the change to the surface current system and the associated
sudden changes in climate.

What was interesting about that report was they said that a sub-current
that goes towards Spain had become 30% stronger (whatever that means
Exactly!) during the last 12 years and the main drift (towards us) had
become weaker. So why have there been so many mild winters in the last
12 years, then?
I don't want to knock the theory, Younger Drayas and all that, it seems
perfectly plausible, but the info presented seems rather contradictory.


Although the NAD may be weaker, it hasn't shut off yet. Before our weather
is affected, it needs the ocean current system in the North Atlantic to
flip from the stable system we have now to the other stable system.

--
Graham Davis
Bracknell

Col wrote:


"Bob" wrote in message
...


Will the NAD slowly weaken over many years, or is there
historical evidence that it can shut down fast ?


From what I understand, it can shut down *very* fast.
Perhaps within a decade or so. And indeed can start
up again within a similar timescale.
These climate 'flips' from one steady state to another,
within a matter of a few years, are one of the most
important findings of the behaviour of our climate when it
had been hitherto assumed that such changes took place
gradually over hundreds or even thousands of years.


Even the Victorians suspected that climate changes occurred suddenly. In
1932, a science-fiction story by Erle Stanley Gardner (author of Perry
Mason stories) was published. This used some of the Victorians' theories -
and the Bible - as a basis for a catastrophe story which begins with New
York being flooded. The cause of the flood in his story was a sudden shift
in the Earth's axis.

--
Graham Davis
Bracknell

Graham,
I collect weather-related fiction. Do you know the name of Gardner's
s-f story?
Thanks,

Pegleg

pegleg wrote:

Graham,
I collect weather-related fiction. Do you know the name of Gardner's
s-f story?
Thanks,


It's "New Worlds". I have it in a collection entitled "Other Worlds, Other
Times" edited by Sam Moskowitz and Roger Elwood, published in the USA by
Macfadden-Bartell Corporation in 1969. Original copyright of the story is
1932, renewed 1960, reprinted by permission of Collins-Knowlton-Wing Inc.


--
Graham Davis
Bracknell

Felly sgrifennodd Graham P Davis :
Although the NAD may be weaker, it hasn't shut off yet. Before our weather
is affected, it needs the ocean current system in the North Atlantic to
flip from the stable system we have now to the other stable system.

Did you mean "... to another stable system."? Because what you says implies
that there are only two possible stable states; it also sort of implies that
we know what the other stable state is. Can we trace this through the
records of ice cores, ocean sediment, tree rings or whatever?

Adrian
--
Adrian Shaw ais@
Adran Cyfrifiadureg, Prifysgol Cymru, aber.
Aberystwyth, Ceredigion, Cymru ac.
http://users.aber.ac.uk/ais uk