Adrian D. Shaw wrote:

Felly sgrifennodd Graham P Davis :
Although the NAD may be weaker, it hasn't shut off yet. Before our weather
is affected, it needs the ocean current system in the North Atlantic to
flip from the stable system we have now to the other stable system.

Did you mean "... to another stable system."? Because what you says
implies that there are only two possible stable states; it also sort of
implies that we know what the other stable state is. Can we trace this
through the records of ice cores, ocean sediment, tree rings or whatever?


From what I remember - and it was forty years ago I first read about it -
there are two stable systems for the currents in the North Atlantic. One is
the one we're used to, and the the other is the system I've described where
the Gulf Stream is a mostly closed system (at the surface) consisting of an
anticyclonic circulation and, to the north is the cyclonic, cold
circulation.

As far as I remember, the existence of these two types of circulation, and
the sudden changes from one to the other, was discovered from ice and
bottom sediment cores. I can't remember who the author of the book was, but
I believe he worked at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute. Strange that one
of the scientists apparently claiming to have recently discovered the same
sudden circulation change works at the same institute. I suspect that it's
just lazy research work rather than plagiarism. I'd normally blame
mis-reporting by the media if I hadn't heard the same claim on various
programs.


--
Graham Davis
Bracknell

Will Hand wrote:
"nguk" wrote in message
...

I must admit this , usually when i post get a flood of insults
and arguments and kill file warnings... but this time
its all good and people discussing.

Have i changed that much?

Interesting replies btw, glad most agree
on the theory of a colder uk




LOL Neil, people haven't insulted you because they have already kill-filed you
and don't see your posts unless somebody quotes them.

Ooops :-)

Will.
--


A very good read on this subject is 'feeling the heat' by Jim Motavalli
Alan

Graham P Davis wrote:

Peter Hayes wrote:

Graham P Davis wrote:

In the new circulation, the NAD would cease to exist. The Gulf Stream
would be a closed anticyclonic circulation with its warm water probably
extending no further north than 45N.

Would that fuel more and more powerful hurricanes?


Hadn't thought about that but it seems probable. I suppose one way of
looking at it could be that if one route for carrying heat from the Tropics
is closed down (NAD), then would hurricanes have to carry more of the
burden?

The effect could have started already.

--

Peter

nguk wrote:

Scientists are saying, that new research is contradicting
global warming and saying that if the ice caps further
break off and or melt then the uk is at risk of getting
much colder!

Myself ive been saying this for years sigh..

How much does the Gulf Stream contribute to warming the UK compared to
our traditional warm and moist south westerlies?

--

Peter

Peter Hayes wrote:


How much does the Gulf Stream contribute to warming the UK compared to
our traditional warm and moist south westerlies?


Surely the two go hand in hand.
--
Keith (Southend)
http://www.southendweather.net

Keith (Southend) wrote:

Peter Hayes wrote:


How much does the Gulf Stream contribute to warming the UK compared to
our traditional warm and moist south westerlies?


Surely the two go hand in hand.

Would we lose these warm and moist south westerlies if the Gulf Stream
stopped?

--

Peter

In article ,
Peter Hayes writes:
Keith (Southend) wrote:

Peter Hayes wrote:


How much does the Gulf Stream contribute to warming the UK compared to
our traditional warm and moist south westerlies?


Surely the two go hand in hand.

Would we lose these warm and moist south westerlies if the Gulf Stream
stopped?

No, but they would be less warm and perhaps less prevalent.
--
John Hall "He crams with cans of poisoned meat
The subjects of the King,
And when they die by thousands G.K.Chesterton:
Why, he laughs like anything." from "Song Against Grocers"

There would be a tendency for much more blocking to occur than at present.
It's also possible, at least initially, that our summers could actually
become hotter and dryer, primarily for the same reasons.

Shaun Pudwell.


"John Hall" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Peter Hayes writes:
Keith (Southend) wrote:

Peter Hayes wrote:


How much does the Gulf Stream contribute to warming the UK compared to
our traditional warm and moist south westerlies?


Surely the two go hand in hand.

Would we lose these warm and moist south westerlies if the Gulf Stream
stopped?

No, but they would be less warm and perhaps less prevalent.
--
John Hall "He crams with cans of poisoned meat
The subjects of the King,
And when they die by thousands G.K.Chesterton:
Why, he laughs like anything." from "Song Against Grocers"

John Hall wrote:

In article ,
Peter Hayes writes:
Keith (Southend) wrote:

Peter Hayes wrote:


How much does the Gulf Stream contribute to warming the UK compared to
our traditional warm and moist south westerlies?


Surely the two go hand in hand.

Would we lose these warm and moist south westerlies if the Gulf Stream
stopped?

No, but they would be less warm and perhaps less prevalent.

So in practice the cooling caused by the loss of the Gulf Stream will be
reduced by warm Atlantic air and heat from southern Europe and north
Africa.

--

Peter

Peter Hayes wrote:
John Hall wrote:


In article ,
Peter Hayes writes:

Keith (Southend) wrote:


Peter Hayes wrote:


How much does the Gulf Stream contribute to warming the UK compared to
our traditional warm and moist south westerlies?


Surely the two go hand in hand.

Would we lose these warm and moist south westerlies if the Gulf Stream
stopped?


No, but they would be less warm and perhaps less prevalent.


So in practice the cooling caused by the loss of the Gulf Stream will be
reduced by warm Atlantic air and heat from southern Europe and north
Africa.


Astronomy now has a piece on the polar ice on Mars. It states that it
is receding much as it is on earth. Just another spanner in the works.
Alan