A decade or so ago I would have looked at the forthcoming charts showing
high pressure on the near continent with a slack southerly flow and
almost guaranteed widespread fogs. However, so far the forecasts have
hardly mentioned fog(s). Is this to do with the "cleaner" air we now
live with, compared to the soot producing smogs of yester-year. Wew
hardly get an hour or two of fog in a year now, here at Southend-on-Sea,
yet I can remember days with it, and some days it never cleared at all
through the day.

What has changed?
--
Keith (Southend)
http://www.southendweather.net
e-mail: kreh at southendweather dot net

Keith (Southend) wrote:
A decade or so ago I would have looked at the forthcoming charts showing
high pressure on the near continent with a slack southerly flow and
almost guaranteed widespread fogs. However, so far the forecasts have
hardly mentioned fog(s). Is this to do with the "cleaner" air we now
live with, compared to the soot producing smogs of yester-year. Wew
hardly get an hour or two of fog in a year now, here at Southend-on-Sea,
yet I can remember days with it, and some days it never cleared at all
through the day.

What has changed?

I've got the impression these Highs seem to quickly become filled with
cloud as moist air comes over the top of them; thereby suppressing any
tendency for radiation type fog.

I good 8/8 layer of Sc at 5000' is enough to render any Autumn/Winter
day gloomy but not foggy, and night frost-free.

Mmmmm... Anticyclonic gloom....

--
Chris
http://www.ivy-house.net
Swaffham, Norfolk

"Keith (Southend)" wrote in message
...
:A decade or so ago I would have looked at the forthcoming charts showing
: high pressure on the near continent with a slack southerly flow and
: almost guaranteed widespread fogs. However, so far the forecasts have
: hardly mentioned fog(s). Is this to do with the "cleaner" air we now
: live with, compared to the soot producing smogs of yester-year. Wew
: hardly get an hour or two of fog in a year now, here at Southend-on-Sea,
: yet I can remember days with it, and some days it never cleared at all
: through the day.
:
: What has changed?

Hmm, interesting - you reminded me of about 15 years ago, and 12 years ago,
with days where the fog didn't lift.

I recall 15 years ago, driving from our village (nr Rugby) to Kenilworth to
meet my mum, then over to Coventry, all the while being in thick fog, and
even in the city (ok the burbs, but in amongst the houses) it was still
reducing visibility to about 50-100 yds.

12 years ago, I can remember setting off from the office (Hayes nr Bromley)
and it was freezing fog, and getting as far as Thurrock services before
giving up, and having to buy loads of bottled drink to clear the screen.
What should have taken me a couple of hours, took me the best part of 8
because of the speeds and the accidents to get back to the midlands.

Since we moved to the south east in 2004, I cannot remember any days that
stayed foggy and damp at all.

I'd be interested in the thoughts too as to why not - could it be related to
the overall amount of water about? ie in having such dry conditions for
quite a period, there isn't the excess moisture around to generate the fogs?
(ok I know thats is probably as dumb as it reads - but!)

Si

GrnOval wrote:

I recall 15 years ago, driving from our village (nr Rugby) to Kenilworth to
meet my mum, then over to Coventry, all the while being in thick fog, and
even in the city (ok the burbs, but in amongst the houses) it was still
reducing visibility to about 50-100 yds.

I remember the same, about 10-15 years ago, driving along the A4097 just
south of Kingsbury in Warwickshire where the road dives straight across
Kingsbury Water Park, that there would be extremely bad fog there. I
remember trying to cross the railway line near Dosthill in Tamworth on
the way to (and from) school and not being able to see far enough to
tell if there's even a slow train approaching!

Either I don't get up early enough to see that sort of fog or we just
don't get it these days.

Jonathan
Canterbury

I remember the same, about 10-15 years ago, driving along the A4097 just
south of Kingsbury in Warwickshire where the road dives straight across
Kingsbury Water Park, that there would be extremely bad fog there

OT only there a few days ago, a good walk with the dog and a great pint at
the Dog and Doublet

"Keith (Southend)" wrote in message
...
A decade or so ago I would have looked at the forthcoming charts showing
high pressure on the near continent with a slack southerly flow and almost
guaranteed widespread fogs. However, so far the forecasts have hardly
mentioned fog(s). Is this to do with the "cleaner" air we now live with,
compared to the soot producing smogs of yester-year. Wew hardly get an hour
or two of fog in a year now, here at Southend-on-Sea, yet I can remember
days with it, and some days it never cleared at all through the day.

What has changed?
--
Keith (Southend)
http://www.southendweather.net

I'm sure the main reason is that, 40 years and more ago, the main source of
heating houses and factories was coal. In the autumn and winter the first
job of the day in most households was to light the coal fire. On calm, clear
mornings the smoke from all these fires soon led to smoke haze, and if
conditions were at all misty, the smoke readily mixed with it to produce
fog.
In my young days, already a weather enthusiast, I used to look forward to
seeing the first fogs of autumn and seeing how long they took to clear. The
earliest date in autumn I noted an all day radiation fog was 30 October
1949, but in most years I expected at least one fog to last all day before
the end of November. If the fog was really thick there was always the hope
that school would close early in the afternoon !
I was thinking yesterday that although the air was dry with only a light
breeze, 50 years ago there would have been a noticeable smelly smoke haze
which would have been even thicker today.

Peter Clarke
Ewell, Epsom 55m

" Peter Clarke" wrote in message
...

"Keith (Southend)" wrote in message
...
A decade or so ago I would have looked at the forthcoming charts showing
high pressure on the near continent with a slack southerly flow and almost
guaranteed widespread fogs. However, so far the forecasts have hardly
mentioned fog(s). Is this to do with the "cleaner" air we now live with,
compared to the soot producing smogs of yester-year. Wew hardly get an
hour or two of fog in a year now, here at Southend-on-Sea, yet I can
remember days with it, and some days it never cleared at all through the
day.

What has changed?
--
Keith (Southend)
http://www.southendweather.net

I'm sure the main reason is that, 40 years and more ago, the main source
of heating houses and factories was coal. In the autumn and winter the
first job of the day in most households was to light the coal fire. On
calm, clear mornings the smoke from all these fires soon led to smoke
haze, and if conditions were at all misty, the smoke readily mixed with
it to produce fog.
In my young days, already a weather enthusiast, I used to look forward to
seeing the first fogs of autumn and seeing how long they took to clear.
The earliest date in autumn I noted an all day radiation fog was 30
October 1949, but in most years I expected at least one fog to last all
day before the end of November. If the fog was really thick there was
always the hope that school would close early in the afternoon !
I was thinking yesterday that although the air was dry with only a light
breeze, 50 years ago there would have been a noticeable smelly smoke
haze which would have been even thicker today.

Peter Clarke
Ewell, Epsom 55m


It's still early for an all dayer. October here was very foggy, though not
always at 0900 recording time. We had an excellent variety of radiation,
hill and sea fog.
I must admit though, that when becoming based at York I was concerned at the
travel I would have to do in fog through the Vale of York, but it's been not
too bad for the last 5 years.

--
David Mitchell, 70m amsl, Langtoft, East Riding of Yorkshire.

"Keith (Southend)" wrote in message
...
A decade or so ago I would have looked at the forthcoming charts showing
high pressure on the near continent with a slack southerly flow and
almost guaranteed widespread fogs. However, so far the forecasts have
hardly mentioned fog(s). Is this to do with the "cleaner" air we now
live with, compared to the soot producing smogs of yester-year. Wew
hardly get an hour or two of fog in a year now, here at Southend-on-Sea,
yet I can remember days with it, and some days it never cleared at all
through the day.

What has changed?

Keith, you're correct, lowland radiation fog has got much rarer and thinner.
All to do with cleaner air and less condensation nucleii like soot etc.
Hill fog OTOH has probably got more common due to generally warmer and more
moist winters.

Will.
--

" Peter Clarke" wrote :
"Keith (Southend)" wrote :
A decade or so ago I would have looked at the forthcoming charts showing
high pressure on the near continent with a slack southerly flow and almost
guaranteed widespread fogs. However, so far the forecasts have hardly
mentioned fog(s). Is this to do with the "cleaner" air we now live with,
compared to the soot producing smogs of yester-year. Wew hardly get an
hour or two of fog in a year now, here at Southend-on-Sea, yet I can
remember days with it, and some days it never cleared at all through the
day.

What has changed?

I'm sure the main reason is that, 40 years and more ago, the main source
of heating houses and factories was coal. In the autumn and winter the
first job of the day in most households was to light the coal fire. On
calm, clear mornings the smoke from all these fires soon led to smoke
haze, and if conditions were at all misty, the smoke readily mixed with
it to produce fog.
In my young days, already a weather enthusiast, I used to look forward to
seeing the first fogs of autumn and seeing how long they took to clear.
The earliest date in autumn I noted an all day radiation fog was 30
October 1949, but in most years I expected at least one fog to last all
day before the end of November.

Peter, I remember a couple of days in September 1966 which were
foggy all day in my part of Bedfordshire. Usually, though, it was around
mid-October in Luton. In those days it seemed that the sky only had
to clear for an hour or so late-afternoon, and if the wind was F2 or less,
bang, the fog would clamp down.

Yes, the particulate pollution of domestic fires and industrial emissions
provided a far greater density of condensation nucleii in those days than
exists now.

Philip

" Peter Clarke" wrote in message
...

"Keith (Southend)" wrote in message
...
A decade or so ago I would have looked at the forthcoming charts showing
high pressure on the near continent with a slack southerly flow and almost
guaranteed widespread fogs. However, so far the forecasts have hardly
mentioned fog(s). Is this to do with the "cleaner" air we now live with,
compared to the soot producing smogs of yester-year. Wew hardly get an
hour or two of fog in a year now, here at Southend-on-Sea, yet I can
remember days with it, and some days it never cleared at all through the
day.

What has changed?
--
Keith (Southend)
http://www.southendweather.net

I'm sure the main reason is that, 40 years and more ago, the main source
of heating houses and factories was coal. In the autumn and winter the
first job of the day in most households was to light the coal fire. On
calm, clear mornings the smoke from all these fires soon led to smoke
haze, and if conditions were at all misty, the smoke readily mixed with
it to produce fog.
In my young days, already a weather enthusiast, I used to look forward to
seeing the first fogs of autumn and seeing how long they took to clear.
The earliest date in autumn I noted an all day radiation fog was 30
October 1949, but in most years I expected at least one fog to last all
day before the end of November. If the fog was really thick there was
always the hope that school would close early in the afternoon !
I was thinking yesterday that although the air was dry with only a light
breeze, 50 years ago there would have been a noticeable smelly smoke
haze which would have been even thicker today.

Peter Clarke
Ewell, Epsom 55m



I've just been for my evening stroll and the air really does feel dense and
cold, actually to me back to days of yore (nice area) Then reading Keith's
fog thread (well lack off) and other recollections takes me back to the
Autumn of 62. That was real fog, or smog as it was known. Blimey that stuff
was acrid, yellowy/green and you could almost pick it up with a spoon-it was
that thick. Actually I say yellow/green but that was induced by street
lighting in the actual daylight hours I just seem to recall a dense grey.

As boy of course I loved it, nice and cosy indoors everything seemingly
closed in. Like many children during that Smog you couldn't go to school as
it was deemed dangerous-imagine that now into days H&S mad world. Then every
one just got on with it.
Where I lived then, Grove Lane in Camberwell ( just a few doors away from
where Jenny Eclair lives now) the road was always busy at rush hour and I
remember everything just coming to a standstill. I still have a vivid memory
of an old RT bus , a 176 creeping up Grove Lane with the conductor leading
the way with a torch. Another other point to remember was the smog would
actually get onto the bus as they were open vehicles and blimey it could be
absolutely bone numbingly perishing when travelling. It would also seep down
the hallway when the street door was opened.

Yet despite all the dangers, the being freezing cold in that damp clingy
smog,and the fact I now know how bad it was for people with respiratory
problems ; I loved every minute of it.

Global Warming ? a piece of cake. They don't know they're born.