UK climate scientist to temporarily step down
(AP) – 2 hours ago (Tuesday 1st December 18.00)

LONDON — Britain's University of East Anglia says the director of its
prestigious Climatic Research Unit is stepping down pending an
investigation into allegations that he overstated the case for
man-made climate change.

The university says Phil Jones will relinquish his position until the
completion of an independent review into allegations that he worked to
alter the way in which global temperature data was presented.

The allegations were made after more than a decade of correspondence
between leading British and U.S. scientists were posted to the Web
following the security breach last month.

The e-mails were seized upon by some skeptics of man-made climate
change as proof that scientists are manipulating the data about its
extent.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/...vKtgAD9CAM0VG0

On Dec 1, 11:30*pm, Lawrence13 wrote:
On Dec 1, 10:29*pm, Alastair wrote:



On Dec 1, 10:13*pm, "Col" wrote:

Natsman wrote:
On 1 Dec, 22:13, Bonos Ego wrote:

revelations. *Clearly it is all a conspiracy despite the views of some
of those on this forum who denied that there could possibly be any
conspiracy in the AGW agenda. *It was only a matter of time.

The sad thing is that the whole shebang is driven by money, and the
Bilderberg premise of global governance. *Too many would have too much
to lose if the bandwagon faltered now, so they'll press on regardless,
steamrollering their way over those who question the science and
motives, brainwashing those who are susceptible, and ignoring those
who demur.

Bilderberg group?
I'm surprised you haven't *mentioned The Illuminati and giant lizards.....

It's potentially the biggest, most damaging scam mankind has
experienced thus far - more so than any changing climate scenario
could possibly be. *Smoke and mirrors, lies and deceit, but certainly
not science. *And we'll all be the sadder, and poorer for it.

What would be the *point* of such a conspiracy, to engineer a
reason for us all to pay more taxes?
You would have to persuade 10s of thousands of scientists all around
the world, along with their Governments to go along with this scam.
Why bother with such an elaborate scheme, even if it was possible to
impliment?
When politicians want to raise taxes they simply *lie* about it in
the time honoured fashion, they don't cook up schemes that take
20 years to come to fruition!
--
Col

Bolton, Lancashire
160m asl

This is a tragedy! *A senior scientist, who has been been fighting
against the ruthless campaign of disinformation financed by the US
oil, coal and automotive industries, and orchestrated by the the
extreme right wing politicians has been brought down for responding in
kind.

Cheers, Alastair.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Alastair people have a choice whether they want to buy oil or not
which is more then can be said for the BBC license fee and Labour
Party green taxes.

You may have the choice of buying oil, but do the poor farmers in
Bangladesh? Oil is now running out so your children and grandchildren
will certainly not have that choice, and the Bangladeshis, along with
everyone else too poor to buy their share of oil today, will never get
any.

The oil companies have no difficulty persuading the greedy people that
that global warming is not a threat, because that is what they want to
hear. It not surprising that the scientists fudged the figures to get
the message across.

Cheers, Alastair.
http://www.complexclimate.org

On Dec 1, 10:13*pm, "Col" wrote:
Natsman wrote:
On 1 Dec, 22:13, Bonos Ego wrote:

revelations. *Clearly it is all a conspiracy despite the views of some
of those on this forum who denied that there could possibly be any
conspiracy in the AGW agenda. *It was only a matter of time.

The sad thing is that the whole shebang is driven by money, and the
Bilderberg premise of global governance. *Too many would have too much
to lose if the bandwagon faltered now, so they'll press on regardless,
steamrollering their way over those who question the science and
motives, brainwashing those who are susceptible, and ignoring those
who demur.

Bilderberg group?
I'm surprised you haven't *mentioned The Illuminati and giant lizards......

It's potentially the biggest, most damaging scam mankind has
experienced thus far - more so than any changing climate scenario
could possibly be. *Smoke and mirrors, lies and deceit, but certainly
not science. *And we'll all be the sadder, and poorer for it.

What would be the *point* of such a conspiracy, to engineer a
reason for us all to pay more taxes?
You would have to persuade 10s of thousands of scientists all around
the world, along with their Governments to go along with this scam.
Why bother with such an elaborate scheme, even if it was possible to
impliment?
When politicians want to raise taxes they simply *lie* about it in
the time honoured fashion, they don't cook up schemes that take
20 years to come to fruition!
--
Col

Bolton, Lancashire
160m asl

Well spoken. Some people will believe anything, however
implausible, if it's actually impossible to disprove.

Tudor Hughes, Warlingham, Surrey

On Dec 2, 12:19*am, "Lawrence Jenkins" wrote:
"Alastair" wrote in message

...
On Dec 1, 11:30 pm, Lawrence13 wrote:





On Dec 1, 10:29 pm, Alastair wrote:

On Dec 1, 10:13 pm, "Col" wrote:

Natsman wrote:
On 1 Dec, 22:13, Bonos Ego wrote:

revelations. Clearly it is all a conspiracy despite the views of
some
of those on this forum who denied that there could possibly be any
conspiracy in the AGW agenda. It was only a matter of time.

The sad thing is that the whole shebang is driven by money, and the
Bilderberg premise of global governance. Too many would have too
much
to lose if the bandwagon faltered now, so they'll press on
regardless,
steamrollering their way over those who question the science and
motives, brainwashing those who are susceptible, and ignoring those
who demur.

Bilderberg group?
I'm surprised you haven't mentioned The Illuminati and giant
lizards.....

It's potentially the biggest, most damaging scam mankind has
experienced thus far - more so than any changing climate scenario
could possibly be. Smoke and mirrors, lies and deceit, but certainly
not science. And we'll all be the sadder, and poorer for it.

What would be the *point* of such a conspiracy, to engineer a
reason for us all to pay more taxes?
You would have to persuade 10s of thousands of scientists all around
the world, along with their Governments to go along with this scam.
Why bother with such an elaborate scheme, even if it was possible to
impliment?
When politicians want to raise taxes they simply *lie* about it in
the time honoured fashion, they don't cook up schemes that take
20 years to come to fruition!
--
Col

Bolton, Lancashire
160m asl

This is a tragedy! A senior scientist, who has been been fighting
against the ruthless campaign of disinformation financed by the US
oil, coal and automotive industries, and orchestrated by the the
extreme right wing politicians has been brought down for responding in
kind.

Cheers, Alastair.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Alastair people have a choice whether they want to buy oil or not
which is more then can be said for the BBC license fee and Labour
Party green taxes.

You may have the choice of buying oil, but do the poor farmers in
Bangladesh? Oil is now running out so your children and grandchildren
will certainly not have that choice, and the Bangladeshis, along with
everyone else too poor to buy their share of oil today, will never get
any.

The oil companies have no difficulty persuading the greedy people that
that global warming is not a threat, because that is what they want to
hear. *It not surprising that the scientists fudged the figures to get
the message across.

Cheers, Alastair.http://www.complexclimate.org

Alastiar: what do you mean by greedy people? At least you accept the figures
were "fudged" whatever you *mean by that?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Such rubbish written about this from the deniers. Phil Jones really is
a highly respected climate scientist. Fortunately there are thousands
more like him that feel exactly the same way about the likelihood of
CO2 driving GW and they have not all been subject to clearly illegal
activity.

While the deniers think they've stopped GW, by intercepting some
internal emails from some really frustrated scientists, it continues
merrily on. 10 out of the last 11 years the warmest on record. Every
month for the last 24 months being in the top 10 warmest for that
month, despite a La Nina, a solar minimum and a negative PDO for the
first year of those 24. Look at the outcomes and deny them.

Phil Jones is not the problem; rising global temperatures are the
problem.

On 2 Dec, 10:22, Dawlish wrote:
On Dec 2, 12:19*am, "Lawrence Jenkins" wrote:





"Alastair" wrote in message

....
On Dec 1, 11:30 pm, Lawrence13 wrote:

On Dec 1, 10:29 pm, Alastair wrote:

On Dec 1, 10:13 pm, "Col" wrote:

Natsman wrote:
On 1 Dec, 22:13, Bonos Ego wrote:

revelations. Clearly it is all a conspiracy despite the views of
some
of those on this forum who denied that there could possibly be any
conspiracy in the AGW agenda. It was only a matter of time.

The sad thing is that the whole shebang is driven by money, and the
Bilderberg premise of global governance. Too many would have too
much
to lose if the bandwagon faltered now, so they'll press on
regardless,
steamrollering their way over those who question the science and
motives, brainwashing those who are susceptible, and ignoring those
who demur.

Bilderberg group?
I'm surprised you haven't mentioned The Illuminati and giant
lizards.....

It's potentially the biggest, most damaging scam mankind has
experienced thus far - more so than any changing climate scenario
could possibly be. Smoke and mirrors, lies and deceit, but certainly
not science. And we'll all be the sadder, and poorer for it.

What would be the *point* of such a conspiracy, to engineer a
reason for us all to pay more taxes?
You would have to persuade 10s of thousands of scientists all around
the world, along with their Governments to go along with this scam.
Why bother with such an elaborate scheme, even if it was possible to
impliment?
When politicians want to raise taxes they simply *lie* about it in
the time honoured fashion, they don't cook up schemes that take
20 years to come to fruition!
--
Col

Bolton, Lancashire
160m asl

This is a tragedy! A senior scientist, who has been been fighting
against the ruthless campaign of disinformation financed by the US
oil, coal and automotive industries, and orchestrated by the the
extreme right wing politicians has been brought down for responding in
kind.

Cheers, Alastair.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Alastair people have a choice whether they want to buy oil or not
which is more then can be said for the BBC license fee and Labour
Party green taxes.

You may have the choice of buying oil, but do the poor farmers in
Bangladesh? Oil is now running out so your children and grandchildren
will certainly not have that choice, and the Bangladeshis, along with
everyone else too poor to buy their share of oil today, will never get
any.

The oil companies have no difficulty persuading the greedy people that
that global warming is not a threat, because that is what they want to
hear. *It not surprising that the scientists fudged the figures to get
the message across.

Cheers, Alastair.http://www.complexclimate.org

Alastiar: what do you mean by greedy people? At least you accept the figures
were "fudged" whatever you *mean by that?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Such rubbish written about this from the deniers. Phil Jones really is
a highly respected climate scientist. Fortunately there are thousands
more like him that feel exactly the same way about the likelihood of
CO2 driving GW and they have not all been subject to clearly illegal
activity.

While the deniers think they've stopped GW, by intercepting some
internal emails from some really frustrated scientists, it continues
merrily on. 10 out of the last 11 years the warmest on record. Every
month for the last 24 months being in the top 10 warmest for that
month, despite a La Nina, a solar minimum and a negative PDO for the
first year of those 24. Look at the outcomes and deny them.

Phil Jones is not the problem; rising global temperatures are the
problem.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Respected? No longer. Global warming? I don't think so - not at the
moment. Thousands of "scientists" in support? Well, possibly, but
there are probably equal numbers of scientists who doubt. Either way,
to feel the need to try and hide data, lie about its contents and
manipulate results between members of the pre-programmed cabal stinks
of self-confessed failure, to me.

The whole subject of climate change is unsettled, and these
revelations have really put any sensible investigation back years, as
well as rightly guaranteeing an increase in public dissent.

Dawlish, the arguments for AGW are not only not proven, but evidently
false. Those who doubt are presented with fundamentally saner and
more concise and honest arguments from true scientists of all schools,
and the message is without alarmism and rabid predictions of doom -
the public are not all thickos, and many are beginning to shift from
any pre-existing ideas they may have been indoctrinated with, in view
of the exposure of this fraud.

Whatever you may say, however hard you may protest and call we who
doubt "deniers" or other insulting epithets, you surely can't condone
the behaviour of those in your own camp in the name of "science"?
Your erroneous "cause", if not irretrievably lost, has surely taken a
stunning, self-inflicted blow. Let's hope so, for all our sakes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Hfts...layer_embedded

CK

Bonos Ego wrote:

I bet the BBC don't report this!

You lose.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/norfolk/8389727.stm

--
Graham P Davis, Bracknell, Berks., UK. E-mail: newsman not newsboy
"I wear the cheese. It does not wear me."

On 2 Dec, 09:43, Natsman wrote:
On 2 Dec, 10:22, Dawlish wrote:



On Dec 2, 12:19*am, "Lawrence Jenkins" wrote:

"Alastair" wrote in message

....
On Dec 1, 11:30 pm, Lawrence13 wrote:

On Dec 1, 10:29 pm, Alastair wrote:

On Dec 1, 10:13 pm, "Col" wrote:

Natsman wrote:
On 1 Dec, 22:13, Bonos Ego wrote:

revelations. Clearly it is all a conspiracy despite the views of
some
of those on this forum who denied that there could possibly be any
conspiracy in the AGW agenda. It was only a matter of time.

The sad thing is that the whole shebang is driven by money, and the
Bilderberg premise of global governance. Too many would have too
much
to lose if the bandwagon faltered now, so they'll press on
regardless,
steamrollering their way over those who question the science and
motives, brainwashing those who are susceptible, and ignoring those
who demur.

Bilderberg group?
I'm surprised you haven't mentioned The Illuminati and giant
lizards.....

It's potentially the biggest, most damaging scam mankind has
experienced thus far - more so than any changing climate scenario
could possibly be. Smoke and mirrors, lies and deceit, but certainly
not science. And we'll all be the sadder, and poorer for it.

What would be the *point* of such a conspiracy, to engineer a
reason for us all to pay more taxes?
You would have to persuade 10s of thousands of scientists all around
the world, along with their Governments to go along with this scam.
Why bother with such an elaborate scheme, even if it was possible to
impliment?
When politicians want to raise taxes they simply *lie* about it in
the time honoured fashion, they don't cook up schemes that take
20 years to come to fruition!
--
Col

Bolton, Lancashire
160m asl

This is a tragedy! A senior scientist, who has been been fighting
against the ruthless campaign of disinformation financed by the US
oil, coal and automotive industries, and orchestrated by the the
extreme right wing politicians has been brought down for responding in
kind.

Cheers, Alastair.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Alastair people have a choice whether they want to buy oil or not
which is more then can be said for the BBC license fee and Labour
Party green taxes.

You may have the choice of buying oil, but do the poor farmers in
Bangladesh? Oil is now running out so your children and grandchildren
will certainly not have that choice, and the Bangladeshis, along with
everyone else too poor to buy their share of oil today, will never get
any.

The oil companies have no difficulty persuading the greedy people that
that global warming is not a threat, because that is what they want to
hear. *It not surprising that the scientists fudged the figures to get
the message across.

Cheers, Alastair.http://www.complexclimate.org

Alastiar: what do you mean by greedy people? At least you accept the figures
were "fudged" whatever you *mean by that?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Such rubbish written about this from the deniers. Phil Jones really is
a highly respected climate scientist. Fortunately there are thousands
more like him that feel exactly the same way about the likelihood of
CO2 driving GW and they have not all been subject to clearly illegal
activity.

While the deniers think they've stopped GW, by intercepting some
internal emails from some really frustrated scientists, it continues
merrily on. 10 out of the last 11 years the warmest on record. Every
month for the last 24 months being in the top 10 warmest for that
month, despite a La Nina, a solar minimum and a negative PDO for the
first year of those 24. Look at the outcomes and deny them.

Phil Jones is not the problem; rising global temperatures are the
problem.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Respected? *No longer. *Global warming? *I don't think so - not at the
moment. Thousands of "scientists" in support? *Well, possibly, but
there are probably equal numbers of scientists who doubt. *Either way,
to feel the need to try and hide data, lie about its contents and
manipulate results between members of the pre-programmed cabal stinks
of self-confessed failure, to me.

The whole subject of climate change is unsettled, and these
revelations have really put any sensible investigation back years, as
well as rightly guaranteeing an increase in public dissent.

Dawlish, the arguments for AGW are not only not proven, but evidently
false. *Those who doubt are presented with fundamentally saner and
more concise and honest arguments from true scientists of all schools,
and the message is without alarmism and rabid predictions of doom -
the public are not all thickos, and many are beginning to shift from
any pre-existing ideas they may have been indoctrinated with, in view
of the exposure of this fraud.

Whatever you may say, however hard you may protest and call we who
doubt "deniers" or other insulting epithets, you surely can't condone
the behaviour of those in your own camp in the name of "science"?
Your erroneous "cause", if not irretrievably lost, has surely taken a
stunning, self-inflicted blow. *Let's hope so, for all our sakes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Hfts...layer_embedded

CK

Dawlish, that's the whole point of this - it's fine to say the data is
saying this and that etc and so it 'shows' there is global warming
(irrespective of whether it's man made). The point and question is -
is the data actually correct or 'fiddled'. Until the data is
independently checked and cleared as 'correct' then your arguments
hold no basis.

"Alastair" wrote in message
...
On Dec 1, 10:13 pm, "Col" wrote:

This is a tragedy! A senior scientist, who has been been fighting
against the ruthless campaign of disinformation financed by the US
oil, coal and automotive industries, and orchestrated by the the
extreme right wing politicians has been brought down for responding in
kind.

Cheers, Alastair

Alastair,

Checkout George Monbiot's climate change blog
on the Guardian website. It's sponsored by Shell.

"You can be sure of Shill." :-)

Cheers, Alan

On Dec 2, 9:54*am, Pete L wrote:
On 2 Dec, 09:43, Natsman wrote:





On 2 Dec, 10:22, Dawlish wrote:

On Dec 2, 12:19*am, "Lawrence Jenkins" wrote:

"Alastair" wrote in message

...
On Dec 1, 11:30 pm, Lawrence13 wrote:

On Dec 1, 10:29 pm, Alastair wrote:

On Dec 1, 10:13 pm, "Col" wrote:

Natsman wrote:
On 1 Dec, 22:13, Bonos Ego wrote:

revelations. Clearly it is all a conspiracy despite the views of
some
of those on this forum who denied that there could possibly be any
conspiracy in the AGW agenda. It was only a matter of time.

The sad thing is that the whole shebang is driven by money, and the
Bilderberg premise of global governance. Too many would have too
much
to lose if the bandwagon faltered now, so they'll press on
regardless,
steamrollering their way over those who question the science and
motives, brainwashing those who are susceptible, and ignoring those
who demur.

Bilderberg group?
I'm surprised you haven't mentioned The Illuminati and giant
lizards.....

It's potentially the biggest, most damaging scam mankind has
experienced thus far - more so than any changing climate scenario
could possibly be. Smoke and mirrors, lies and deceit, but certainly
not science. And we'll all be the sadder, and poorer for it..

What would be the *point* of such a conspiracy, to engineer a
reason for us all to pay more taxes?
You would have to persuade 10s of thousands of scientists all around
the world, along with their Governments to go along with this scam.
Why bother with such an elaborate scheme, even if it was possible to
impliment?
When politicians want to raise taxes they simply *lie* about it in
the time honoured fashion, they don't cook up schemes that take
20 years to come to fruition!
--
Col

Bolton, Lancashire
160m asl

This is a tragedy! A senior scientist, who has been been fighting
against the ruthless campaign of disinformation financed by the US
oil, coal and automotive industries, and orchestrated by the the
extreme right wing politicians has been brought down for responding in
kind.

Cheers, Alastair.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Alastair people have a choice whether they want to buy oil or not
which is more then can be said for the BBC license fee and Labour
Party green taxes.

You may have the choice of buying oil, but do the poor farmers in
Bangladesh? Oil is now running out so your children and grandchildren
will certainly not have that choice, and the Bangladeshis, along with
everyone else too poor to buy their share of oil today, will never get
any.

The oil companies have no difficulty persuading the greedy people that
that global warming is not a threat, because that is what they want to
hear. *It not surprising that the scientists fudged the figures to get
the message across.

Cheers, Alastair.http://www.complexclimate.org

Alastiar: what do you mean by greedy people? At least you accept the figures
were "fudged" whatever you *mean by that?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Such rubbish written about this from the deniers. Phil Jones really is
a highly respected climate scientist. Fortunately there are thousands
more like him that feel exactly the same way about the likelihood of
CO2 driving GW and they have not all been subject to clearly illegal
activity.

While the deniers think they've stopped GW, by intercepting some
internal emails from some really frustrated scientists, it continues
merrily on. 10 out of the last 11 years the warmest on record. Every
month for the last 24 months being in the top 10 warmest for that
month, despite a La Nina, a solar minimum and a negative PDO for the
first year of those 24. Look at the outcomes and deny them.

Phil Jones is not the problem; rising global temperatures are the
problem.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Respected? *No longer. *Global warming? *I don't think so - not at the
moment. Thousands of "scientists" in support? *Well, possibly, but
there are probably equal numbers of scientists who doubt. *Either way,
to feel the need to try and hide data, lie about its contents and
manipulate results between members of the pre-programmed cabal stinks
of self-confessed failure, to me.

The whole subject of climate change is unsettled, and these
revelations have really put any sensible investigation back years, as
well as rightly guaranteeing an increase in public dissent.

Dawlish, the arguments for AGW are not only not proven, but evidently
false. *Those who doubt are presented with fundamentally saner and
more concise and honest arguments from true scientists of all schools,
and the message is without alarmism and rabid predictions of doom -
the public are not all thickos, and many are beginning to shift from
any pre-existing ideas they may have been indoctrinated with, in view
of the exposure of this fraud.

Whatever you may say, however hard you may protest and call we who
doubt "deniers" or other insulting epithets, you surely can't condone
the behaviour of those in your own camp in the name of "science"?
Your erroneous "cause", if not irretrievably lost, has surely taken a
stunning, self-inflicted blow. *Let's hope so, for all our sakes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Hfts...layer_embedded

CK

Dawlish, that's the whole point of this - it's fine to say the data is
saying this and that etc and so it 'shows' there is global warming
(irrespective of whether it's man made). The point and question is -
is the data actually correct or 'fiddled'. Until the data is
independently checked and cleared as 'correct' then your arguments
hold no basis.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The 2 sets of satellite data has been checked, rechecked, checked
again and found to be absolutely sound, Pete. One major set of data
from UAH is compiled by a prominent sceptic; Roy Spencer at UAH. The
figures for recent months and years that I quoted were taken from
NOAA's record and there is the GISS data as well as Hadley's. As all 5
sets of data correlate statistically, then my arguments hold all the
basis necessary that allows so many scientists to see that GW is
continuing and a few denialists to shout conspiracy at any possibility
of seeing anything which may detract from that accepted picture of
warming.

In addition, the number of documented responses by the natural
environment, as shown on the thread below clearly shows that the
warming trend is already having an effect:

http://groups.google.com/group/uk.sc...aeb91522164ce#

I don't honestly see what there is to deny about GW. The only argument
is about the cause. Here, the physics relating CO2 to atmospheric
warming that have been settled for over a century (though there are a
few hardcore denialists that would even gainsay that). There would
have to be another, overriding factor to mask the effects of CO2 and I
don't see one. The evidence for another factor in global temperature
outcomes simply isn't there. That doesn't mean there isn't one, but
one is going to have to be proven soon, or I throw my lot in fully
with the scientists who feel that CO2 really is the driver.

On Dec 2, 9:43*am, Natsman wrote:
On 2 Dec, 10:22, Dawlish wrote:





On Dec 2, 12:19*am, "Lawrence Jenkins" wrote:

"Alastair" wrote in message

....
On Dec 1, 11:30 pm, Lawrence13 wrote:

On Dec 1, 10:29 pm, Alastair wrote:

On Dec 1, 10:13 pm, "Col" wrote:

Natsman wrote:
On 1 Dec, 22:13, Bonos Ego wrote:

revelations. Clearly it is all a conspiracy despite the views of
some
of those on this forum who denied that there could possibly be any
conspiracy in the AGW agenda. It was only a matter of time.

The sad thing is that the whole shebang is driven by money, and the
Bilderberg premise of global governance. Too many would have too
much
to lose if the bandwagon faltered now, so they'll press on
regardless,
steamrollering their way over those who question the science and
motives, brainwashing those who are susceptible, and ignoring those
who demur.

Bilderberg group?
I'm surprised you haven't mentioned The Illuminati and giant
lizards.....

It's potentially the biggest, most damaging scam mankind has
experienced thus far - more so than any changing climate scenario
could possibly be. Smoke and mirrors, lies and deceit, but certainly
not science. And we'll all be the sadder, and poorer for it.

What would be the *point* of such a conspiracy, to engineer a
reason for us all to pay more taxes?
You would have to persuade 10s of thousands of scientists all around
the world, along with their Governments to go along with this scam.
Why bother with such an elaborate scheme, even if it was possible to
impliment?
When politicians want to raise taxes they simply *lie* about it in
the time honoured fashion, they don't cook up schemes that take
20 years to come to fruition!
--
Col

Bolton, Lancashire
160m asl

This is a tragedy! A senior scientist, who has been been fighting
against the ruthless campaign of disinformation financed by the US
oil, coal and automotive industries, and orchestrated by the the
extreme right wing politicians has been brought down for responding in
kind.

Cheers, Alastair.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Alastair people have a choice whether they want to buy oil or not
which is more then can be said for the BBC license fee and Labour
Party green taxes.

You may have the choice of buying oil, but do the poor farmers in
Bangladesh? Oil is now running out so your children and grandchildren
will certainly not have that choice, and the Bangladeshis, along with
everyone else too poor to buy their share of oil today, will never get
any.

The oil companies have no difficulty persuading the greedy people that
that global warming is not a threat, because that is what they want to
hear. *It not surprising that the scientists fudged the figures to get
the message across.

Cheers, Alastair.http://www.complexclimate.org

Alastiar: what do you mean by greedy people? At least you accept the figures
were "fudged" whatever you *mean by that?- Hide quoted text -

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Such rubbish written about this from the deniers. Phil Jones really is
a highly respected climate scientist. Fortunately there are thousands
more like him that feel exactly the same way about the likelihood of
CO2 driving GW and they have not all been subject to clearly illegal
activity.

While the deniers think they've stopped GW, by intercepting some
internal emails from some really frustrated scientists, it continues
merrily on. 10 out of the last 11 years the warmest on record. Every
month for the last 24 months being in the top 10 warmest for that
month, despite a La Nina, a solar minimum and a negative PDO for the
first year of those 24. Look at the outcomes and deny them.

Phil Jones is not the problem; rising global temperatures are the
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Respected? *No longer.

Yes it is. Listen to the scientists and the politicians, especially
from the third world, at Copenhagen

Global warming? *I don't think so - not at the
moment.

Look at the outcomes that I pointed to above. How can you not see
recent warming in those figures.

Thousands of "scientists" in support? *Well, possibly, but
there are probably equal numbers of scientists who doubt. *

No there most certainly aren't. You and the few scientists whose work
you follow and feel that GW is not happening are in a *tiny* minority.
Don't try to picture denialist science as having equal support to
mainstream; it hasn't.

The rest of your post contains the thoughts of someone who wants GW
not to be true. I'm sure you have your own reasons for that and that
state of mind is very typical of the majority of deniers. They *want*
to be right. Those kind of thoughts and needs have nothing to do with
science, I'm afraid.

Like I've said before and I'll say again, thank goodness no-one with
influence, apart from corporations and energy companies with
unbelievable vested interests, is listening to you.


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