The Guardian pamphlet entitled The Long Winter 1962-3 contains an image
of fires burning alongside a diesel engine on the railways,a practice
also used apparently with some lorries that used diesel fuel.How low
does the temperature have to go before those of us with diesel-engined
cars need to start becoming concerned?I assume additives are always
included with fuel at any season but if temps reach -20c say could there
be problems?
My comments are prompted by the contents of dedicated weather sites
which are now indicating prolonged and severe cold.

On Jan 1, 6:48*pm, Henry Fairfaxton
"Henry wrote:
The Guardian pamphlet entitled The Long Winter 1962-3 contains an image
of *fires burning alongside a *diesel engine on the railways,a practice
also used apparently with some lorries that used diesel fuel.How low
does the temperature have to go before those of us with diesel-engined
cars need to start becoming concerned?I assume additives are always
included with fuel at any season but if temps reach -20c say could there
be problems?
My comments are prompted by the contents of dedicated weather sites
which are now indicating prolonged and severe cold.

yeah, -20 will give problems- stick half a gallon of unleaded into a
full tank of derv to unwax it and you will be fine

On Fri, 1 Jan 2010 11:44:48 -0800 (PST)
fred wrote:

On Jan 1, 6:48*pm, Henry Fairfaxton
"Henry wrote:
The Guardian pamphlet entitled The Long Winter 1962-3 contains an image
of *fires burning alongside a *diesel engine on the railways,a practice
also used apparently with some lorries that used diesel fuel.

yeah, -20 will give problems- stick half a gallon of unleaded into a
full tank of derv to unwax it and you will be fine

But waxing is not the only problem. If the temperature of the air
inside the cylinder doesn't get high enough to ignite the fuel at the
top of the compression stroke the motor still won't go. One solution
I know is to hold a lighted newspaper in the air intake [1] as it's
cranked over. In the winter of 1970/1 on a nuclear powerstation
construction site, trying to start a big compressor on the sea-shore,
that was the job of the apprentice. Guess who.





[1] NOT with a petrol engine, PLEASE!


Mike

On Jan 1, 6:48*pm, Henry Fairfaxton
"Henry wrote:
The Guardian pamphlet entitled The Long Winter 1962-3 contains an image
of *fires burning alongside a *diesel engine on the railways,a practice
also used apparently with some lorries that used diesel fuel.How low
does the temperature have to go before those of us with diesel-engined
cars need to start becoming concerned?I assume additives are always
included with fuel at any season but if temps reach -20c say could there
be problems?
My comments are prompted by the contents of dedicated weather sites
which are now indicating prolonged and severe cold.



In December of 1981, I have memories of travelling to work from
Pontefract to Hemsworth, in Yorkshire, along a corridor formed by
(mainly) broken-down lorries which had been pulled onto the pavements
on both sides of the road. I believe the diesel had solidified in the
tanks. The fog was also so dense that people got lost following routes
that they commuted along every working day. They were the worst road
conditions I've ever experienced.

I think I remember that diesel then began to cloud at -9C. Things may
have changed with more modern fuels. I've also read that it is common
practice to defrost the diesel engines by lighting a fire underneath
them!!

On Jan 1, 9:02*pm, Dawlish wrote:
On Jan 1, 6:48*pm, Henry Fairfaxton

"Henry wrote:
The Guardian pamphlet entitled The Long Winter 1962-3 contains an image
of *fires burning alongside a *diesel engine on the railways,a practice
also used apparently with some lorries that used diesel fuel.How low
does the temperature have to go before those of us with diesel-engined
cars need to start becoming concerned?I assume additives are always
included with fuel at any season but if temps reach -20c say could there
be problems?
My comments are prompted by the contents of dedicated weather sites
which are now indicating prolonged and severe cold.

I've also read that it is common
practice to defrost the diesel engines by lighting a fire underneath
them!!

Whoops. That should have read....."common practice......**in
Siberia**"!!

It got lost in editing somewhere!

Dawlish wrote:
On Jan 1, 6:48 pm, Henry Fairfaxton
"Henry wrote:
The Guardian pamphlet entitled The Long Winter 1962-3 contains an image
of fires burning alongside a diesel engine on the railways,a practice
also used apparently with some lorries that used diesel fuel.How low
does the temperature have to go before those of us with diesel-engined
cars need to start becoming concerned?I assume additives are always
included with fuel at any season but if temps reach -20c say could there
be problems?
My comments are prompted by the contents of dedicated weather sites
which are now indicating prolonged and severe cold.



In December of 1981, I have memories of travelling to work from
Pontefract to Hemsworth, in Yorkshire, along a corridor formed by
(mainly) broken-down lorries which had been pulled onto the pavements
on both sides of the road. I believe the diesel had solidified in the
tanks. The fog was also so dense that people got lost following routes
that they commuted along every working day. They were the worst road
conditions I've ever experienced.

I think I remember that diesel then began to cloud at -9C. Things may
have changed with more modern fuels. I've also read that it is common
practice to defrost the diesel engines by lighting a fire underneath
them!!
THis is an interesting thread. We in the Highlands (Black Isle) have had
regular temperatures of -8 to -13C and I could not get my pick up to
start. The tank contains diesel bought in early autumn (October) and
hence is not winter spec (Google it - there is a raft of legislation to
do with diesel and summer / winter). Suffice to say when the temp
reached 0 C I rushed home and finally got the machine to start. I'll
bear in mind the heated air suggestion at the inlet manifold also. The
half gallon of petrol in the tank I'll resist.

On Fri, 1 Jan 2010 13:02:09 -0800 (PST), Dawlish wrote:

I think I remember that diesel then began to cloud at -9C.

Can't find anything via google other than very vague figures. Nothing
on the Shell or BP websites that I can find

Things may have changed with more modern fuels.

The producers make "summer" and "winter" grade fuels. The quick
google indicated that summer fuels may wax (have a "cloud point")
anywhere between 0C and -12C. Winter ones may go down to -24C before
reaching the cloud point.

I've not had any trouble with my diesel with overnight temps down to
-10C. "Brian in Aberfeldy" hasn't mentioned any problems and it's
been pretty cold up there in the last week.

I've also read that it is common practice to defrost the diesel engines
by lighting a fire underneath them!!

Yes, my Dad tells stories like that from the winter of '47. That was
cold but we don't know what the fuel was like back then.

--
Cheers Dave.
Nr Garrigill, Cumbria. 421m ASL.

snip
I'll
bear in mind the heated air suggestion at the inlet manifold also. The
half gallon of petrol in the tank I'll resist.-

IIRC, after the winter of 1981/2 -when I also encountered scores of
stranded diesel lorries and vans, with widespread minima of -20C and
below, the legislation was amended to include a winter fuel additive
in diesel to prevent "waxing" at v low ambient temps. Whether the
milder winters of late have caused a relaxation of this requirement, I
don't know. I only saw it happen in that particular cold spell and we
did have others in the 70s and 80s which gave temps of -10C and lower,
which suggests - parts of Scotland excepted - we're nowhere near the
temps required to cause the problem ...... yet.

- Tom.

Dave Liquorice wrote:
On Fri, 1 Jan 2010 13:02:09 -0800 (PST), Dawlish wrote:

I think I remember that diesel then began to cloud at -9C.

Can't find anything via google other than very vague figures. Nothing
on the Shell or BP websites that I can find

Things may have changed with more modern fuels.

The producers make "summer" and "winter" grade fuels. The quick
google indicated that summer fuels may wax (have a "cloud point")
anywhere between 0C and -12C. Winter ones may go down to -24C before
reaching the cloud point.

I've not had any trouble with my diesel with overnight temps down to
-10C. "Brian in Aberfeldy" hasn't mentioned any problems and it's
been pretty cold up there in the last week.

I've also read that it is common practice to defrost the diesel engines
by lighting a fire underneath them!!

Yes, my Dad tells stories like that from the winter of '47. That was
cold but we don't know what the fuel was like back then.

--
Cheers Dave.
Nr Garrigill, Cumbria. 421m ASL.



My understanding is the diesels ability to pass through the fuel filter
is the issue. Also any entrained water will form ice in the pipes and
clog fuel flow. I changed the filter believing it to be the problem
initially - it was manky right enough - but given the non flowing diesel
it was IMO less of problem than the temps. I also added a cetane booster
to try to assist combustion / free up the flow. If I was to comingle the
fuel my choice would be parrafin - a couple of pints only per tank.
Purely to prevent any chance of washing oil off piston rings.
Sorry this is getting off the purely weather subject.

On Fri, 01 Jan 2010 22:45:50 +0000, Mas Dubh wrote:

My understanding is the diesels ability to pass through the fuel filter
is the issue.

Mainly down to the wax particles clogging the filter rather than the
viscosity. Though some where between 5 and 10C below the cloud point
the fuel becomes a gel and won't flow.

Also any entrained water will form ice in the pipes and clog fuel flow.

Water and oil don't mix I'd expect any water to stay in the bottom of
the tank and freeze there. Of course if you run the tank low the
sloshing about may enable the water to get into the fuel lines. I
don't feel that a tank with a reasonable amount of fuel in will slosh
as much as one nearly empty.

If I was to comingle the fuel my choice would be parrafin - a couple of
pints only per tank. Purely to prevent any chance of washing oil off
piston rings.

I'd prefer paraffin to petrol as well. Even have a few hundred litres
out back, trouble is the beggers mark it now like red diesel. B-(
One site I found said to add two stroke oil if adding more than 20%
(IIRC) paraffin for the lubrication reason, not so much the rings but
the pump and injectors.

--
Cheers Dave.
Nr Garrigill, Cumbria. 421m ASL.