Meteosat 8 satellite picture from Ferdinand Valk's site at 12.00 UTC on
Friday 15th January http://www.fvalk.com/images/Day_image/MSG-1200-EUR.jpg

Meteosat MSG-2 satellite picture from Bernard Burton's site at 12.00 UTC on
Friday 15th January http://www.woksat.info/etcsa15m/sa15-msg-1200-uk.html

NOAA 19 satellite picture from Bernard Burton's site at 13.27 UTC on Friday
15th January http://www.woksat.info/etcsa15/sa15-1327-b-uk.html

Britain and Belgium mostly cloudy.


UK min. temps on Thursday night http://tinyurl.com/yafu3ut

Sennybridge -2.1°C, Lossiemouth -2.2°C, Glen Ogle -2.3°C, Coventry
Bablake and Dunkeswell -2.6°C, Kinloss and Bingley -2.9°C, Copley -3.1°C,
Spadeadam -3.4°C, Charterhall -3.5°C, Woodford -4.8°C, Loch
Glascarnoch -5.0°C, Redesdale -5.3°C.

Stornoway 4.8°C, South Uist 5.0°C, Tiree 5.8°C, St Mary's Scilly 7.8°C.


UK max. temps on Friday http://tinyurl.com/yea8kv2

Copley and Fylingdales 2.0°C, Glen Ogle 2.6°C, Dishforth and Waddington
2.9°C.

Ballykelly, Castlederg and Glenanne 10.0°C, St Angelo and Milford Haven
10.1°C, Ronaldsway 10.2°C, Belfast Aldergrove 10.6°C, Chivenor 10.8°C,
Camborne 10.9°C, St Mary's Scilly, Culdrose and Plymouth 11.2°C.

OGIMET summary http://tinyurl.com/yzewtvp


Rainfall radar http://www.meteox.com/h.aspx?r=&soort=loop24uur&URL or
http://www.raintoday.co.uk/

Outbreaks of rain cross Britain from west to east during Friday. Sleet or
snow in some places in the north at first. Further rain approaches the
west in the evening.

Rainfall totals in 24 hours ending 18.00 UTC on Friday
http://tinyurl.com/ycqbtdq

Drumalbin, Bingley, Trawsgoed, Aberdaron and Charlwood 13 mm, Little
Rissington 16 mm, Sennybridge 21 mm, Capel Curig and Lake Vyrnwy 24 mm,
Spadeadam 25 mm, Aviemore 48 mm.


Location of some UK stations
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/educatio...r_data_uk.html


Colin Youngs
Brussels

On 15 Jan, 20:47, "Colin Youngs" wrote:
Meteosat 8 satellite picture from Ferdinand Valk's site at 12.00 UTC on
Friday 15th January *http://www.fvalk.com/images/Day_image/MSG-1200-EUR..jpg

Meteosat MSG-2 satellite picture from Bernard Burton's site at 12.00 UTC on
Friday 15th January *http://www.woksat.info/etcsa15m/sa15-msg-1200-uk.html

NOAA 19 satellite picture from Bernard Burton's site at 13.27 UTC on Friday
15th January *http://www.woksat.info/etcsa15/sa15-1327-b-uk.html

Britain and Belgium mostly cloudy.

UK min. temps on Thursday night *http://tinyurl.com/yafu3ut

Sennybridge -2.1°C, *Lossiemouth -2.2°C, *Glen Ogle -2.3°C, *Coventry
Bablake and Dunkeswell -2.6°C, *Kinloss and Bingley -2.9°C, *Copley -3.1°C,
Spadeadam -3.4°C, *Charterhall -3.5°C, *Woodford -4.8°C, *Loch
Glascarnoch -5.0°C, *Redesdale -5.3°C.

Stornoway 4.8°C, *South Uist 5.0°C, *Tiree 5.8°C, *St Mary's Scilly 7.8°C.

UK max. temps on Friday *http://tinyurl.com/yea8kv2

Copley and Fylingdales 2.0°C, *Glen Ogle 2.6°C, *Dishforth and Waddington
2.9°C.

Ballykelly, Castlederg and Glenanne 10.0°C, *St Angelo and Milford Haven
10.1°C, *Ronaldsway 10.2°C, *Belfast Aldergrove 10.6°C, *Chivenor 10.8°C,
Camborne 10.9°C, *St Mary's Scilly, Culdrose and Plymouth 11.2°C.

OGIMET summary *http://tinyurl.com/yzewtvp

Rainfall radar *http://www.meteox.com/h.aspx?r=&soort=loop24uur&URL* orhttp://www.raintoday.co.uk/

Outbreaks of rain cross Britain from west to east during Friday. * Sleet or
snow in some places in the north at first. * Further rain approaches the
west in the evening.

Rainfall totals in 24 hours ending 18.00 UTC on Fridayhttp://tinyurl.com/ycqbtdq

Drumalbin, Bingley, Trawsgoed, Aberdaron and Charlwood 13 mm, *Little
Rissington 16 mm, *Sennybridge 21 mm, *Capel Curig and Lake Vyrnwy 24 mm,
Spadeadam 25 mm, *Aviemore 48 mm.

Location of some UK stationshttp://www.metoffice.gov.uk/education/teachers/latest_weather_data_uk...

Colin Youngs
Brussels

Hmmm ... I wonder how many of these large totals we've seen last few
days are from melting snow in unmanned and unchecked tipping bucket
gauges ...

--
Stephen Burt
Stratfield Mortimer, Berkshire

"Stephen Burt" schreef in bericht
news:0a0ec3ba-e956-47ed-b2ff-

Drumalbin, Bingley, Trawsgoed, Aberdaron and Charlwood 13 mm, Little
Rissington 16 mm, Sennybridge 21 mm, Capel Curig and Lake Vyrnwy 24 mm,
Spadeadam 25 mm, Aviemore 48 mm.

Hmmm ... I wonder how many of these large totals we've seen last few
days are from melting snow in unmanned and unchecked tipping bucket
gauges ...
______________

I noticed this on Tuesday when 3 places in the north of Scotland reported
high rainfall totals without anything on the radar to back them up -
Tulloch Bridge 26 mm, Aboyne 28 mm, Altnaharra 44 mm.

I also had it in mind on the following days - but from this distance and
without specialist knowledge, I was not sure whether it was still a factor.
I should have been sceptical about the Aviemore figure since it was so much
greater than the others.

I also noticed during the periods of snowfall that the rainfall totals often
seemed too low for the depths of snow being reported.

Colin Youngs
Brussels

On 16 Jan, 21:47, "Colin Youngs" wrote:
"Stephen Burt" schreef in bericht
news:0a0ec3ba-e956-47ed-b2ff-

Drumalbin, Bingley, Trawsgoed, Aberdaron and Charlwood 13 mm, Little
Rissington 16 mm, Sennybridge 21 mm, Capel Curig and Lake Vyrnwy 24 mm,
Spadeadam 25 mm, Aviemore 48 mm.

Hmmm ... I wonder how many of these large totals we've seen last few
days are from melting snow in unmanned and unchecked tipping bucket
gauges ...
______________

I noticed this on Tuesday when 3 places in the north of Scotland reported
high rainfall totals without anything on the radar to back them up *-
Tulloch Bridge 26 mm, *Aboyne 28 mm, *Altnaharra 44 mm.

I also had it in mind on the following days *- *but from this distance and
without specialist knowledge, I was not sure whether it was still a factor.

In article
,
Stephen Burt writes:
On 16 Jan, 21:47, "Colin Youngs" wrote:
"Stephen Burt" schreef in bericht
news:0a0ec3ba-e956-47ed-b2ff-

Drumalbin, Bingley, Trawsgoed, Aberdaron and Charlwood 13 mm, Little
Rissington 16 mm, Sennybridge 21 mm, Capel Curig and Lake Vyrnwy 24 mm,
Spadeadam 25 mm, Aviemore 48 mm.

Hmmm ... I wonder how many of these large totals we've seen last few
days are from melting snow in unmanned and unchecked tipping bucket
gauges ...
______________

I noticed this on Tuesday when 3 places in the north of Scotland reported
high rainfall totals without anything on the radar to back them up *-
Tulloch Bridge 26 mm, *Aboyne 28 mm, *Altnaharra 44 mm.

I also had it in mind on the following days *- *but from this distance and
without specialist knowledge, I was not sure whether it was still a factor.
I should have been sceptical about the Aviemore figure since it was so much
greater than the others.

I also noticed during the periods of snowfall that the rainfall totals often
seemed too low for the depths of snow being reported.

Colin Youngs
Brussels

No criticism of your excellent reporting intended, Colin. I find it a
shame that these anomalies will probably get left in the
climatological record through lack of action or interest. So much for
maintaining an _accurate_ record of the nation's weather! Symons, Mill
et al must be positively spiining in their graves at this vandalism of
the country's rainfall records.


Philip Eden made essentially the same point in his weekly piece in
yesterday's Telegraph. It would be even worse if heavy snowfall occurred
in one month and the thaw the following month, as then the monthly
totals would be wrong as well as the daily ones.
--
John Hall
"Acting is merely the art of keeping a large group of people
from coughing."
Sir Ralph Richardson (1902-83)

On Jan 17, 10:39*am, John Hall wrote:
In article
,
*Stephen Burt writes:





On 16 Jan, 21:47, "Colin Youngs" wrote:
"Stephen Burt" schreef in bericht
news:0a0ec3ba-e956-47ed-b2ff-

Drumalbin, Bingley, Trawsgoed, Aberdaron and Charlwood 13 mm, Little
Rissington 16 mm, Sennybridge 21 mm, Capel Curig and Lake Vyrnwy 24 mm,
Spadeadam 25 mm, Aviemore 48 mm.

Hmmm ... I wonder how many of these large totals we've seen last few
days are from melting snow in unmanned and unchecked tipping bucket
gauges ...
______________

I noticed this on Tuesday when 3 places in the north of Scotland reported
high rainfall totals without anything on the radar to back them up -
Tulloch Bridge 26 mm, Aboyne 28 mm, Altnaharra 44 mm.

I also had it in mind on the following days - but from this distance and
without specialist knowledge, I was not sure whether it was still a factor.
I should have been sceptical about the Aviemore figure since it was so much
greater than the others.

I also noticed during the periods of snowfall that the rainfall totals often
seemed too low for the depths of snow being reported.

Colin Youngs
Brussels

No criticism of your excellent reporting intended, Colin. I find it a
shame that these anomalies will probably get left in the
climatological record through lack of action or interest. So much for
maintaining an _accurate_ record of the nation's weather! Symons, Mill
et al must be positively spiining in their graves at this vandalism of
the country's rainfall records.

Philip Eden made essentially the same point in his weekly piece in
yesterday's Telegraph. It would be even worse if heavy snowfall occurred
in one month and the thaw the following month, as then the monthly
totals would be wrong as well as the daily ones.
--
John Hall
* * * * * *"Acting is merely the art of keeping a large group of people
* * * * * * from coughing."
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Sir Ralph Richardson (1902-83)- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Having read this thread I got in touch with the observing contact
point, and it seems our fears are unfounded.
Hope I get this right!
Rainfall records are based primarily on the 0900 to 0900 rainfall day.
All the 100s of climate observers read their rainfall at 0900, and
melt any snowfall to give a rain equivalent.
Manned Met stations read an ordinary manual gauge at 0900 each day
too, to check that their automatic
kit is accurate.
If the auto gauge is blocked with snow, the 24 hour reading is
replaced by the rain equivalent from the manual gauge.
No similar efforts are made for other rainfall periods as reported at
0600, 1800 etc. Unfortunately these are the periods used by sites
such as the ones Colin gets his info from, which often makes it
incorrect.
The important thing is that the rainfall day data is correct.
At unattended automatic stations very little can be done until the
snow melts. The accumulated readings of snowmelt are then re-
allocated to the correct rainfall days by comparing with the nearest
climate stations or manned Met sites.
So, although it may not be the case until some weeks after the event,
the readings are eventually accurate.

Jim

"souwestdad" wrote ...
snip
The important thing is that the rainfall day data is correct.
At unattended automatic stations very little can be done until the
snow melts. The accumulated readings of snowmelt are then re-
allocated to the correct rainfall days by comparing with the nearest
climate stations or manned Met sites.
So, although it may not be the case until some weeks after the
event,
the readings are eventually accurate.

..... er, no. Hardly accurate. Imagine an AWS gauge that has been left
for three weeks with *significant* (as in the case of Aviemore) snow
building up event-on-event, being added to by fresh falls, taken away
by wind scouring, removed by sublimation, blowing over the top without
accumulation etc., etc.

The only way to get an *approximate* idea of the water equivalent of
snow is to monitor the situation, at least once per 24hr, and
preferably more frequently, with slices taken of new snow to melt,
giving the current-event water-equivalent, which can then be added to
the previous assessment etc. It's a tedious, time-consuming process,
and a jolly cold one!

Reality kicks in these days of course - there are fewer manned
observing stations (at least professionally), which is why the 'hobby'
network is so important.

Martin.



--
Martin Rowley
West Moors, East Dorset (UK): 17m (56ft) amsl
Lat: 50.82N Long: 01.88W
NGR: SU 082 023

"Martin Rowley" wrote in message
news
"souwestdad" wrote ...
snip
The important thing is that the rainfall day data is correct.
At unattended automatic stations very little can be done until the
snow melts. The accumulated readings of snowmelt are then re-
allocated to the correct rainfall days by comparing with the nearest
climate stations or manned Met sites.
So, although it may not be the case until some weeks after the event,
the readings are eventually accurate.

.... er, no. Hardly accurate. Imagine an AWS gauge that has been left for
three weeks with *significant* (as in the case of Aviemore) snow building
up event-on-event, being added to by fresh falls, taken away by wind
scouring, removed by sublimation, blowing over the top without
accumulation etc., etc.

The only way to get an *approximate* idea of the water equivalent of snow
is to monitor the situation, at least once per 24hr, and preferably more
frequently, with slices taken of new snow to melt, giving the
current-event water-equivalent, which can then be added to the previous
assessment etc. It's a tedious, time-consuming process, and a jolly cold
one!

Reality kicks in these days of course - there are fewer manned observing
stations (at least professionally), which is why the 'hobby' network is so
important.


Bang on Martin. The keen 'amateur' network run by retired pros and hobbyists
could well become extremely important, but it needs organisation, [WR] and
[OB] on a newsgroup is a start but it needs more than that.

Will
--