In message
,
Dawlish writes
On Sep 18, 1:03*pm, James Brown
wrote:
It looks as if there has been a faster seasonal return to ice increase
than in the dire year of 2007. Though looking at the overall Arctic
temperature charts I'm not quite sure why.

http://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/i...timeseries.png

Cheers
James
--
James Brown

Apart from the fact that there has been a downtick over the last 2
days *)) :

http://www.ijis.iarc.uaf.edu/en/home/seaice_extent.htm

Don't be surprised to see fluctuations during the coming week. It
happens at this time. As you imply, increases, or decreases will be
down to local synoptics and temperature differences for a few days
yet, as ice is still melting in many areas, whereas in others, the
freeze has well and truly begun.

Yes I tend to overlook this other site - more in keeping with what the
temp charts are giving, though the previous site makes it look more
impressive - possibly due to the scale factors.
Cheers,
James

--
James Brown

In message
,
Lawrence13 writes
On Sep 18, 1:03*pm, James Brown
wrote:
It looks as if there has been a faster seasonal return to ice increase
than in the dire year of 2007. Though looking at the overall Arctic
temperature charts I'm not quite sure why.

http://nsidc.org/data/seaice_index/i...timeseries.png

Cheers
James
--
James Brown

Maybe winds above and sea currents below have a far greater influence
than just temperature. Actually the temps above 80 north have been
much lower than 2007 and have only risen sharply again the last couple
of days.

http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/meant80n.uk.php

Many thanks for that useful link Lawrence - I hadn't seen that before.
Cheers
James
--
James Brown

"Lawrence13" wrote:

Dawlish wrote:
Why do you think Arctic sea ice will return to the 1979-2008 mean in
the next decade? I don't think any scientist agrees with you.
Certainly no-one in working in the area of the cryosphere does. I'm
not the only one waiting to read your explanation with interest.-
Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Natural cooling cycles Sun and Oceans .

Can I go now Sir?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Good that you've returned, I respect that (took some doing, but I do
respect it) but no you can't. I've got no idea what you mean by that
answer and "natural cycles" are just a cop-out. What "natural cooling
cycles", or combinations of them are going to lead to summer Arctic
sea ice recovering? Don't dodge by trying to sidetrack. Tell us what
you mean.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The same forces that have always varied our climate long before C02
was seen as an issue.

Those natural forces have been negative (indicating cooling) since mid-20th
Century, while global temperature has increased substantially and Arctic ice
has gone into accelerating decline. See:

http://www.cawcr.gov.au/staff/jma/meehl_additivity.pdf

How can you reconcile these oppositely-directed trends?

On Sep 18, 8:29*pm, "Togless" wrote:
"Lawrence13" wrote:
Dawlish wrote:
Why do you think Arctic sea ice will return to the 1979-2008 mean in
the next decade? I don't think any scientist agrees with you.
Certainly no-one in working in the area of the cryosphere does. I'm
not the only one waiting to read your explanation with interest.-
Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Natural cooling cycles Sun and Oceans .

Can I go now Sir?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Good that you've returned, I respect that (took some doing, but I do
respect it) but no you can't. I've got no idea what you mean by that
answer and "natural cycles" are just a cop-out. What "natural cooling
cycles", or combinations of them are going to lead to summer Arctic
sea ice recovering? *Don't dodge by trying to sidetrack. Tell us what
you mean.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The same forces that have always varied our climate long before C02
was seen as an issue.

Those natural forces have been negative (indicating cooling) since mid-20th
Century, while global temperature has increased substantially and Arctic ice
has gone into accelerating decline. *See:

http://www.cawcr.gov.au/staff/jma/meehl_additivity.pdf

How can you reconcile these oppositely-directed trends?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Good luck eliciting a sensible answer!

On Sep 18, 8:29*pm, "Togless" wrote:
"Lawrence13" wrote:
Dawlish wrote:
Why do you think Arctic sea ice will return to the 1979-2008 mean in
the next decade? I don't think any scientist agrees with you.
Certainly no-one in working in the area of the cryosphere does. I'm
not the only one waiting to read your explanation with interest.-
Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Natural cooling cycles Sun and Oceans .

Can I go now Sir?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Good that you've returned, I respect that (took some doing, but I do
respect it) but no you can't. I've got no idea what you mean by that
answer and "natural cycles" are just a cop-out. What "natural cooling
cycles", or combinations of them are going to lead to summer Arctic
sea ice recovering? *Don't dodge by trying to sidetrack. Tell us what
you mean.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The same forces that have always varied our climate long before C02
was seen as an issue.

Those natural forces have been negative (indicating cooling) since mid-20th
Century, while global temperature has increased substantially and Arctic ice
has gone into accelerating decline. *See:

http://www.cawcr.gov.au/staff/jma/meehl_additivity.pdf

How can you reconcile these oppositely-directed trends?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

How an earth can I know it's still not clear what exactly causes ice
ages Milankovitch is totally proven as I believe some other theories
have done the rounds. There even been disagreement with the role of
C02 in another thread in this group. To act as if all is now known is
rather daft IMHO, I mean when one of the so called fonts of all
knowledge on AGW Trenberth bemoans as to where has all the heat gone
underlines this: yet you feel everything has now been settled . The
role of the sun and various mechanisms have been totally discounted by
the IPCC, not even seen as relevant in the earth's climate. Yet you
ask me to reconcile what you feel are indisputable truths.

Get outta here

"Lawrence13" wrote:

On Sep 18, 8:29 pm, "Togless" wrote:
"Lawrence13" wrote:
Dawlish wrote:
Why do you think Arctic sea ice will return to the 1979-2008 mean
in
the next decade? I don't think any scientist agrees with you.
Certainly no-one in working in the area of the cryosphere does.
I'm
not the only one waiting to read your explanation with interest.-

Natural cooling cycles Sun and Oceans .

Can I go now Sir?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Good that you've returned, I respect that (took some doing, but I do
respect it) but no you can't. I've got no idea what you mean by that
answer and "natural cycles" are just a cop-out. What "natural cooling
cycles", or combinations of them are going to lead to summer Arctic
sea ice recovering? Don't dodge by trying to sidetrack. Tell us what
you mean.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The same forces that have always varied our climate long before C02
was seen as an issue.

Those natural forces have been negative (indicating cooling) since
mid-20th
Century, while global temperature has increased substantially and Arctic
ice
has gone into accelerating decline. See:

http://www.cawcr.gov.au/staff/jma/meehl_additivity.pdf

How can you reconcile these oppositely-directed trends?

How an earth can I know it's still not clear what exactly causes ice
ages Milankovitch is totally proven as I believe some other theories
have done the rounds. There even been disagreement with the role of
C02 in another thread in this group. To act as if all is now known is
rather daft IMHO, I mean when one of the so called fonts of all
knowledge on AGW Trenberth bemoans as to where has all the heat gone
underlines this: yet you feel everything has now been settled . The
role of the sun and various mechanisms have been totally discounted by
the IPCC, not even seen as relevant in the earth's climate. Yet you
ask me to reconcile what you feel are indisputable truths.

Get outta here

You were alluding to "Natural cooling cycles Sun and Oceans" and "The same
forces that have always varied our climate long before CO2 was seen as an
issue" as being indicative of forthcoming increases in Arctic sea ice back
to the 1979-2008 mean.

I'm simply pointing out that natural forcings (such as solar irradiance and
volcanic aerosols) have been negative for the last 50 or 60 years, and at
the same time we've had a period of significant global warming. If those
natural forcings didn't manage to cause any cooling since mid-20th Century
then it's hard to see why they would suddenly start doing so now, unless you
have reason to expect (for example) a fairly substantial drop in solar
irradiance or increase in large volcanic eruptions.

On Sep 20, 10:43*pm, "Togless" wrote:
"Lawrence13" wrote:
On Sep 18, 8:29 pm, "Togless" wrote:
"Lawrence13" wrote:
Dawlish wrote:
Why do you think Arctic sea ice will return to the 1979-2008 mean
in
the next decade? I don't think any scientist agrees with you.
Certainly no-one in working in the area of the cryosphere does.
I'm
not the only one waiting to read your explanation with interest..-

Natural cooling cycles Sun and Oceans .

Can I go now Sir?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Good that you've returned, I respect that (took some doing, but I do
respect it) but no you can't. I've got no idea what you mean by that
answer and "natural cycles" are just a cop-out. What "natural cooling
cycles", or combinations of them are going to lead to summer Arctic
sea ice recovering? *Don't dodge by trying to sidetrack. Tell us what
you mean.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

The same forces that have always varied our climate long before C02
was seen as an issue.

Those natural forces have been negative (indicating cooling) since
mid-20th
Century, while global temperature has increased substantially and Arctic
ice
has gone into accelerating decline. *See:

http://www.cawcr.gov.au/staff/jma/meehl_additivity.pdf

How can you reconcile these oppositely-directed trends?

How an earth can I know it's still not clear what exactly causes ice
ages * Milankovitch is totally proven as I believe some other theories
have done the rounds. There even been disagreement with the role of
C02 in another thread in this group. To act as if all is now known is
rather daft IMHO, I mean when one of the so called *fonts of all
knowledge on AGW Trenberth bemoans as to where has all the heat gone
underlines this: yet you feel everything has now been settled . *The
role of the sun and various mechanisms have been totally discounted by
the IPCC, not even seen as relevant in the earth's climate. * Yet you
ask me to reconcile what you feel are indisputable truths.

Get outta here

You were alluding to "Natural cooling cycles Sun and Oceans" and "The same
forces that have always varied our climate long before CO2 was seen as an
issue" as being indicative of forthcoming increases in Arctic sea ice back
to the 1979-2008 mean.

I'm simply pointing out that natural forcings (such as solar irradiance and
volcanic aerosols) have been negative for the last 50 or 60 years, and at
the same time we've had a period of significant global warming. *If those
natural forcings didn't manage to cause any cooling since mid-20th Century
then it's hard to see why they would suddenly start doing so now, unless you
have reason to expect (for example) a fairly substantial drop in solar
irradiance or increase in large volcanic eruptions.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And I'm simply pointing out that we don't know the whole story yet. If
you're so sure then have a stab at forecasting all of those dire
consequences predicted by AGW bandwagonist . Go on I'm waiting? So far
the apparent experts that tell us they seem to know all there is to
know but haven't so far made a great fist of the catastrophic
predictions -have they. You are obviously part of the AGW bandwagon
that feel very frustrated because their Russell Grant forecasts , have
been made to look very Russell Grant. Fancy another stab at this?
Its free you know

What star sign are you ..Capricorn?

On Monday, 12 September 2011 21:34:09 UTC+1, Lawrence Jenkins wrote:

Whilst I'm at it, my figures quoted from the IPCC first report in 1990
for sea level rise was correct and yet no one has the decency to
recognise that truth?

There is something characteristically dawlish about you, Jenkins. Dawlish isn't your sock puppet by any chance. Nice trolling if so.

Well done.

On Sunday, 1 December 2013 11:19:20 UTC, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Monday, 12 September 2011 21:34:09 UTC+1, Lawrence Jenkins wrote:



Whilst I'm at it, my figures quoted from the IPCC first report in 1990

for sea level rise was correct and yet no one has the decency to

recognise that truth?



There is something characteristically dawlish about you, Jenkins. Dawlish isn't your sock puppet by any chance. Nice trolling if so.



Well done.

Bloody hell Michael that was two years ago have you just awoken from a coma and trying to catch up? Anyway I don't even remember writing that, it was over two years ago, I've paid my time and I'm now a changed man- Well the last time I looked.