I recall it being mentioned on here that the highest Scottish mountains
are not very far below the permanent snow line, which seems reasonable
given that semi-permanent snow patches do exist there. What I find
puzzling is when I look at pictures of, say, the Jotunheimen or
Hardangavidda regions in Norway and it seems like the mountains have to
be much higher, say, 1800m or more to get glaciers and ice caps. If you
look at pictures of isolated summits of around 1500-1600m in height they
seem to be surprisingly snow free in the late summer (e.g.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaustatoppen) . Given that Norway is
further north than Scotland and has a cooler climate why is the
permanent snow line so much higher than it would be in Scotland?

Or is there something I am missing here?

On Sep 23, 10:03*pm, Adam Lea wrote:

Given that Norway is
further north than Scotland and has a cooler climate why is the
permanent snow line so much higher than it would be in Scotland?

Or is there something I am missing here?

You could start with a definition of the word: "higher.

In article ,
Adam Lea writes:
I recall it being mentioned on here that the highest Scottish
mountains are not very far below the permanent snow line, which
seems reasonable given that semi-permanent snow patches do
exist there. What I find puzzling is when I look at pictures of, say,
the Jotunheimen or Hardangavidda regions in Norway and it
seems like the mountains have to be much higher, say, 1800m or
more to get glaciers and ice caps. If you look at pictures of
isolated summits of around 1500-1600m in height they seem to be
surprisingly snow free in the late summer (e.g. http://en.wikipedia.
org/wiki/Gaustatoppen) . Given that Norway is further north than
Scotland and has a cooler climate why is the permanent snow line
so much higher than it would be in Scotland?

Or is there something I am missing here?

I think that when saying "not very far below the permanent snow line"
people may have been thinking that 5,000-6,000ft would be needed (I'm
not very comfortable with metres for the height of mountains), so that
there wouldn't really be a contradiction. Alternatively "not very far
below the permanent snow line" may be no more than a guesstimate that's
been accepted without ever having been subjected to rigorous scrutiny.

I suppose that the amount of precipitation - snowfall in winter and rain
in summer to help melt the snow - must also come into it as well as
temperature, but I wouldn't have expected that to be very different in
Norway from that in Scotland.
--
John Hall
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism
by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw

In message , Adam Lea
writes
I recall it being mentioned on here that the highest Scottish mountains
are not very far below the permanent snow line, which seems reasonable
given that semi-permanent snow patches do exist there. What I find
puzzling is when I look at pictures of, say, the Jotunheimen or
Hardangavidda regions in Norway and it seems like the mountains have to
be much higher, say, 1800m or more to get glaciers and ice caps. If you
look at pictures of isolated summits of around 1500-1600m in height
they seem to be surprisingly snow free in the late summer (e.g.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaustatoppen) . Given that Norway is
further north than Scotland and has a cooler climate why is the
permanent snow line so much higher than it would be in Scotland?

Or is there something I am missing here?

The snow line depends on several factors other than temperature. If the
climate is dry and little snow accumulates overwinter, it will be easier
to melt it in the spring and summer. Other factors, such as wind and
avalanche, may also limit snow accumulation, especially on steep and
exposed slopes.

But no obvious reason jumps to mind as to why Norway in general would
have a higher snowline than Scotland. In the case of the photographed
areas of Gaustatoppen the steep exposed nature of the ground may be
relevant. (Note that the semi-permanent snow patches in Scotland are not
on the highest ground, but in sheltered north facing corries.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_patches_in_Scotland
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
In message , Adam Lea
writes
I recall it being mentioned on here that the highest Scottish
mountains are not very far below the permanent snow line, which seems
reasonable given that semi-permanent snow patches do exist there. What
I find puzzling is when I look at pictures of, say, the Jotunheimen or
Hardangavidda regions in Norway and it seems like the mountains have
to be much higher, say, 1800m or more to get glaciers and ice caps. If
you look at pictures of isolated summits of around 1500-1600m in
height they seem to be surprisingly snow free in the late summer (e.g.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaustatoppen) . Given that Norway is
further north than Scotland and has a cooler climate why is the
permanent snow line so much higher than it would be in Scotland?

Or is there something I am missing here?

The snow line depends on several factors other than temperature. If the
climate is dry and little snow accumulates overwinter, it will be easier
to melt it in the spring and summer. Other factors, such as wind and
avalanche, may also limit snow accumulation, especially on steep and
exposed slopes.

But no obvious reason jumps to mind as to why Norway in general would
have a higher snowline than Scotland. In the case of the photographed
areas of Gaustatoppen the steep exposed nature of the ground may be
relevant. (Note that the semi-permanent snow patches in Scotland are not
on the highest ground, but in sheltered north facing corries.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_patches_in_Scotland
------------------
Are summer maxima a bit higher in Norway, especially inland with a more
Continental climate? I've been in Trondheim in July when it was 27C -
not to say that Scotland doesn't sometimes get those temperatures in
Summer but Trondheim is a lot further north than the Shetlands.
Oslo seems to have a mean max of 21C for June, July, August whereas
Inverness appears to be around 18C for the same period. Whether this
could be enough to cause a difference I'm not sure.
Dave

In message , Dave Cornwell
writes
Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
In message , Adam Lea
writes
I recall it being mentioned on here that the highest Scottish
mountains are not very far below the permanent snow line, which seems
reasonable given that semi-permanent snow patches do exist there.
What I find puzzling is when I look at pictures of, say, the
Jotunheimen or Hardangavidda regions in Norway and it seems like the
mountains have to be much higher, say, 1800m or more to get glaciers
and ice caps. If you look at pictures of isolated summits of around
1500-1600m in height they seem to be surprisingly snow free in the
late summer (e.g. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaustatoppen) . Given
that Norway is further north than Scotland and has a cooler climate
why is the permanent snow line so much higher than it would be in Scotland?

Or is there something I am missing here?
The snow line depends on several factors other than temperature. If
the climate is dry and little snow accumulates overwinter, it will be
easier to melt it in the spring and summer. Other factors, such as
wind and avalanche, may also limit snow accumulation, especially on
steep and exposed slopes.
But no obvious reason jumps to mind as to why Norway in general
would have a higher snowline than Scotland. In the case of the
photographed areas of Gaustatoppen the steep exposed nature of the
ground may be relevant. (Note that the semi-permanent snow patches in
Scotland are not on the highest ground, but in sheltered north facing

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_patches_in_Scotland
------------------
Are summer maxima a bit higher in Norway, especially inland with a more
Continental climate? I've been in Trondheim in July when it was 27C -
not to say that Scotland doesn't sometimes get those temperatures in
Summer but Trondheim is a lot further north than the Shetlands.

Last time I was in the Highlands was during an early May heatwave and I
think that there were temperatures like that at Fersit.

Oslo seems to have a mean max of 21C for June, July, August whereas
Inverness appears to be around 18C for the same period. Whether this
could be enough to cause a difference I'm not sure.
Dave

Southeastern Scandinavia has warmer summers than Scotland. But there
doesn't seem to be much difference between Scotland and the high
mountain regions of Norway.

http://go.grolier.com/atlas?id=mtlr030
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

On 24/09/11 10:45, Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
In message , Adam Lea
writes
I recall it being mentioned on here that the highest Scottish
mountains are not very far below the permanent snow line, which seems
reasonable given that semi-permanent snow patches do exist there. What
I find puzzling is when I look at pictures of, say, the Jotunheimen or
Hardangavidda regions in Norway and it seems like the mountains have
to be much higher, say, 1800m or more to get glaciers and ice caps. If
you look at pictures of isolated summits of around 1500-1600m in
height they seem to be surprisingly snow free in the late summer (e.g.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaustatoppen) . Given that Norway is
further north than Scotland and has a cooler climate why is the
permanent snow line so much higher than it would be in Scotland?

Or is there something I am missing here?

The snow line depends on several factors other than temperature. If the
climate is dry and little snow accumulates overwinter, it will be easier
to melt it in the spring and summer. Other factors, such as wind and
avalanche, may also limit snow accumulation, especially on steep and
exposed slopes.

But no obvious reason jumps to mind as to why Norway in general would
have a higher snowline than Scotland. In the case of the photographed
areas of Gaustatoppen the steep exposed nature of the ground may be
relevant. (Note that the semi-permanent snow patches in Scotland are not
on the highest ground, but in sheltered north facing corries.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_patches_in_Scotland

Another thought occurred to me, the Scottish mountains tend to rise up
from close to sea level whereas the Norwegian mountains tend to rise up
from a very large, high plateau and as such, the temperatures on the
summits would be higher than the adiabatic lapse rate would suggest.

On Sep 24, 11:21*am, Dave Cornwell wrote:
Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
In message , Adam Lea
writes
I recall it being mentioned on here that the highest Scottish
mountains are not very far below the permanent snow line, which seems
reasonable given that semi-permanent snow patches do exist there. What
I find puzzling is when I look at pictures of, say, the Jotunheimen or
Hardangavidda regions in Norway and it seems like the mountains have
to be much higher, say, 1800m or more to get glaciers and ice caps. If
you look at pictures of isolated summits of around 1500-1600m in
height they seem to be surprisingly snow free in the late summer (e.g.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaustatoppen) . Given that Norway is
further north than Scotland and has a cooler climate why is the
permanent snow line so much higher than it would be in Scotland?

Or is there something I am missing here?

The snow line depends on several factors other than temperature. If the
climate is dry and little snow accumulates overwinter, it will be easier
to melt it in the spring and summer. Other factors, such as wind and
avalanche, may also limit snow accumulation, especially on steep and
exposed slopes.

But no obvious reason jumps to mind as to why Norway in general would
have a higher snowline than Scotland. In the case of the photographed
areas of Gaustatoppen the steep exposed nature of the ground may be
relevant. (Note that the semi-permanent snow patches in Scotland are not
on the highest ground, but in sheltered north facing corries.)

* *http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_patches_in_Scotland

------------------
Are summer maxima a bit higher in Norway, especially inland with a more
Continental climate? I've been in Trondheim in July when it was 27C *-
not to say that Scotland doesn't sometimes get those temperatures in
Summer but Trondheim is a lot further north than the Shetlands.
Oslo seems to have a mean max of 21C for June, July, August whereas
Inverness appears to be around 18C for the same period. Whether this
could be enough to cause a difference I'm not sure.
Dave- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Alsomuch further north so much more daylight with no darkness at all
for a short spell during the NH summer, far more conducive to melting
the accumulated ice and snow, I would feel.

In article
,
Lawrence13 writes:
On Sep 24, 11:21*am, Dave Cornwell wrote:
Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
In message , Adam Lea
writes
I recall it being mentioned on here that the highest Scottish
mountains are not very far below the permanent snow line, which seems
reasonable given that semi-permanent snow patches do exist there. What
I find puzzling is when I look at pictures of, say, the Jotunheimen or
Hardangavidda regions in Norway and it seems like the mountains have
to be much higher, say, 1800m or more to get glaciers and ice caps. If
you look at pictures of isolated summits of around 1500-1600m in
height they seem to be surprisingly snow free in the late summer (e.g.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaustatoppen) . Given that Norway is
further north than Scotland and has a cooler climate why is the
permanent snow line so much higher than it would be in Scotland?

Or is there something I am missing here?

The snow line depends on several factors other than temperature. If the
climate is dry and little snow accumulates overwinter, it will be easier
to melt it in the spring and summer. Other factors, such as wind and
avalanche, may also limit snow accumulation, especially on steep and
exposed slopes.

But no obvious reason jumps to mind as to why Norway in general would
have a higher snowline than Scotland. In the case of the photographed
areas of Gaustatoppen the steep exposed nature of the ground may be
relevant. (Note that the semi-permanent snow patches in Scotland are not
on the highest ground, but in sheltered north facing corries.)

* *http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_patches_in_Scotland

------------------
Are summer maxima a bit higher in Norway, especially inland with a more
Continental climate? I've been in Trondheim in July when it was 27C *-
not to say that Scotland doesn't sometimes get those temperatures in
Summer but Trondheim is a lot further north than the Shetlands.
Oslo seems to have a mean max of 21C for June, July, August whereas
Inverness appears to be around 18C for the same period. Whether this
could be enough to cause a difference I'm not sure.
Dave- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Alsomuch further north so much more daylight with no darkness at all
for a short spell during the NH summer, far more conducive to melting
the accumulated ice and snow, I would feel.

Yes, Norway's mostly further north (not that much for southern Norway
though), but the longer hours of daylight in summer would be at least
partially counteracted by the sun not getting so high in the sky in the
middle part of the day.
--
John Hall
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism
by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw

"John Hall" wrote in message
...
In article
,
Lawrence13 writes:
On Sep 24, 11:21 am, Dave Cornwell wrote:
Stewart Robert Hinsley wrote:
In message , Adam Lea
writes
I recall it being mentioned on here that the highest Scottish
mountains are not very far below the permanent snow line, which seems
reasonable given that semi-permanent snow patches do exist there.
What
I find puzzling is when I look at pictures of, say, the Jotunheimen
or
Hardangavidda regions in Norway and it seems like the mountains have
to be much higher, say, 1800m or more to get glaciers and ice caps.
If
you look at pictures of isolated summits of around 1500-1600m in
height they seem to be surprisingly snow free in the late summer
(e.g.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaustatoppen) . Given that Norway is
further north than Scotland and has a cooler climate why is the
permanent snow line so much higher than it would be in Scotland?

Or is there something I am missing here?

The snow line depends on several factors other than temperature. If
the
climate is dry and little snow accumulates overwinter, it will be
easier
to melt it in the spring and summer. Other factors, such as wind and
avalanche, may also limit snow accumulation, especially on steep and
exposed slopes.

But no obvious reason jumps to mind as to why Norway in general would
have a higher snowline than Scotland. In the case of the photographed
areas of Gaustatoppen the steep exposed nature of the ground may be
relevant. (Note that the semi-permanent snow patches in Scotland are
not
on the highest ground, but in sheltered north facing corries.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_patches_in_Scotland

------------------
Are summer maxima a bit higher in Norway, especially inland with a more
Continental climate? I've been in Trondheim in July when it was 27C -
not to say that Scotland doesn't sometimes get those temperatures in
Summer but Trondheim is a lot further north than the Shetlands.
Oslo seems to have a mean max of 21C for June, July, August whereas
Inverness appears to be around 18C for the same period. Whether this
could be enough to cause a difference I'm not sure.
Dave- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Alsomuch further north so much more daylight with no darkness at all
for a short spell during the NH summer, far more conducive to melting
the accumulated ice and snow, I would feel.

Yes, Norway's mostly further north (not that much for southern Norway
though), but the longer hours of daylight in summer would be at least
partially counteracted by the sun not getting so high in the sky in the
middle part of the day.

Ah yes but the low sun angle means a more direct incidence on the slope of
the hills.
Hay Tor on Dartmoor can warm up far more rapidly first thing in the morning
than lower down due to this effect. Snow disappears rapidly in winter on the
southeast slopes if the sun is out.

Will
--