Passing through Cairndow at the head of Loch Fyne in Argyll last
Saturday I noticed the following photographs in the visitor centre

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-t...1105-00085.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-s...1105-00086.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-W...1105-00087.jpg

Apologies for the poor quality - taken on mobile phone.

The note reads
"Curling at Ardkinglas Loch Fyne
This photograph was taken on the 19th of November 1909, during a game on
the ice in Ardkinglas Bay Loch Fyne 200 Yards from high water mark.
There has been no curling on this part of the loch within the memory of
the oldest person in the district."

This immediately struck me as improbable and I queried the photo with
the lady in the shop at the time. My first thought was that it was a
nearby inland loch such as the curling rink in the other photo but she
assured me it definitely was the sea loch however she too found it
difficult to believe the sea could freeze to that depth. Apparently Loch
Fyne did freeze in the last 2 winters however with the rise and fall of
the tide it was constantly cracking and splitting and at no time
anywhere near the strength required for a curling match. Loch Fyne does
however have relatively fresh water and does freeze quicker than
undiluted sea water. In addition the 19th of November looks far too
early for such an event - at a stretch the 19th of January may just have
been believable. Somebody suggested the curlers had moved tentatively
onto the ice for the sake of the photo and then moved back quickly to
the shore.
Even if it is accepted that they were wrong with the precise date it
still suggests a ferociousness of winter far removed from the experience
of recent years.

Robert Watson
Irvine, Ayrshire

"Robert Watson" wrote in message
...
Passing through Cairndow at the head of Loch Fyne in Argyll last Saturday
I noticed the following photographs in the visitor centre

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-t...1105-00085.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-s...1105-00086.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-W...1105-00087.jpg

Apologies for the poor quality - taken on mobile phone.

The note reads
"Curling at Ardkinglas Loch Fyne
This photograph was taken on the 19th of November 1909, during a game on
the ice in Ardkinglas Bay Loch Fyne 200 Yards from high water mark.
There has been no curling on this part of the loch within the memory of
the oldest person in the district."

This immediately struck me as improbable and I queried the photo with the
lady in the shop at the time. My first thought was that it was a nearby
inland loch such as the curling rink in the other photo but she assured me
it definitely was the sea loch however she too found it difficult to
believe the sea could freeze to that depth. Apparently Loch Fyne did
freeze in the last 2 winters however with the rise and fall of the tide it
was constantly cracking and splitting and at no time anywhere near the
strength required for a curling match. Loch Fyne does however have
relatively fresh water and does freeze quicker than undiluted sea water.
In addition the 19th of November looks far too early for such an event -
at a stretch the 19th of January may just have been believable. Somebody
suggested the curlers had moved tentatively onto the ice for the sake of
the photo and then moved back quickly to the shore.
Even if it is accepted that they were wrong with the precise date it still
suggests a ferociousness of winter far removed from the experience of
recent years.

Robert, here in the Highlands, freezing of part of the sea lochs occurs most
years but not enough to walk on. However in some years a substantial
thickness of ice can form. In 1995/6 the Dornoch Firth froze to a depth of 2
feet and only fractured slightly with the rise and fall of the tide -
probably thick enough to drive a small car on.

Phil
Northern Highlands of Scotland

In article ,
Robert Watson writes:
Passing through Cairndow at the head of Loch Fyne in Argyll last
Saturday I noticed the following photographs in the visitor centre

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-t...rpkyaXsWfI/AAA
AAAAABqo/ORrQ3h3aa-0/s1024/IMG-20111105-00085.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-s...pkx-5hxLI/AAAA
AAAABqc/Lc8jfvxQfos/s842/IMG-20111105-00086.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-W...TrpkyWA1llI/AA
AAAAAABqk/STigrRWFl6Q/s912/IMG-20111105-00087.jpg

Apologies for the poor quality - taken on mobile phone.

The note reads
"Curling at Ardkinglas Loch Fyne
This photograph was taken on the 19th of November 1909, during a
game on the ice in Ardkinglas Bay Loch Fyne 200 Yards from high
water mark.
There has been no curling on this part of the loch within the
memory of the oldest person in the district."

This immediately struck me as improbable and I queried the photo
with the lady in the shop at the time. My first thought was that it
was a nearby inland loch such as the curling rink in the other
photo but she assured me it definitely was the sea loch however
she too found it difficult to believe the sea could freeze to that
depth. Apparently Loch Fyne did freeze in the last 2 winters
however with the rise and fall of the tide it was constantly cracking
and splitting and at no time anywhere near the strength required
for a curling match. Loch Fyne does however have relatively fresh
water and does freeze quicker than undiluted sea water. In
addition the 19th of November looks far too early for such an event
- at a stretch the 19th of January may just have been believable.
Somebody suggested the curlers had moved tentatively onto the
ice for the sake of the photo and then moved back quickly to the
shore.
Even if it is accepted that they were wrong with the precise date it
still suggests a ferociousness of winter far removed from the
experience of recent years.

Robert Watson
Irvine, Ayrshire

That is very interesting. I checked on Trevor Harley's excellent
website, and for November 1909 it says merely:

"November. Dry and bright but cool; it was the driest month of the
year."

So I don't think the date can be correct. But November 1919 is a strong
possibility. Here's an extract from the entry for that month:

"It was however the cold spell midmonth, with heavy snowfalls and sharp
frosts, that was particularly noticeable. This was an extraordinary cold
snap that would rank as one of the major winter events of the century;
that it had happened in mid-November makes it even more extraordinary.
The cold spell really set in on the 11th as the winds turned to the
north. There were snow showers in eastern Scotland from 8th to 10th, but
late on the 11th it snowed heavily across Scotland, leading to many
villages being cut off. There was a foot of snow on Dartmoor, 17" at
Balmoral, and 8" at Edinburgh. A record low minimum of -23.3C was set at
Braemar on the 14th, and -21.7C at Perth (hurrah!). This was the lowest
reading of the year, and is the earliest date on which such a low
temperature has occurred. It was also down to -21.1C at West Linton and
Balmoral on the 14th; the maximum on the 14th at Balmoral was only
-10,and -12C on the 15th. The next night, the temperature fell to -2
-22.8 on the morning of the 15th. Snow lay at Braemar to a depth of 42
cm; it lay from the 11th until the end of the month."

See:
http://www.personal.dundee.ac.uk/~ta...19_weather.htm

However I'd take issue with your last paragraph. I would have thought
that winter 2009-10 was of comparable severity in Scotland, though
obviously not as remarkable as the cold occurring in November.
--
John Hall
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism
by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw

Malcolm wrote:


In article , Robert Watson
writes
Passing through Cairndow at the head of Loch Fyne in Argyll last Saturday I
noticed the following photographs in the visitor centre

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-t.../AAAAAAAABqo/O
RrQ3h3aa-0/s1024/IMG-20111105-00085.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-s.../AAAAAAAABqc/L
c8jfvxQfos/s842/IMG-20111105-00086.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-W.../AAAAAAAABqk/S
TigrRWFl6Q/s912/IMG-20111105-00087.jpg

Apologies for the poor quality - taken on mobile phone.

The note reads
"Curling at Ardkinglas Loch Fyne
This photograph was taken on the 19th of November 1909, during a game on
the ice in Ardkinglas Bay Loch Fyne 200 Yards from high water mark. There
has been no curling on this part of the loch within the memory of the
oldest person in the district."

This immediately struck me as improbable and I queried the photo with the
lady in the shop at the time. My first thought was that it was a nearby
inland loch such as the curling rink in the other photo but she assured me
it definitely was the sea loch however she too found it difficult to
believe the sea could freeze to that depth. Apparently Loch Fyne did freeze
in the last 2 winters however with the rise and fall of the tide it was
constantly cracking and splitting and at no time anywhere near the strength
required for a curling match. Loch Fyne does however have relatively fresh
water and does freeze quicker than undiluted sea water. In addition the
19th of November looks far too early for such an event - at a stretch the
19th of January may just have been believable. Somebody suggested the
curlers had moved tentatively onto the ice for the sake of the photo and
then moved back quickly to the shore. Even if it is accepted that they
were wrong with the precise date it still suggests a ferociousness of
winter far removed from the experience of recent years.

The head of Loch Fyne, at Ardkinglas, is relatively shallow, very sheltered,
lacking much in the way of sea currents, and fed by a river. Thus, the upper
layers of the loch will be largely freshwater floating on top of the
sal****er (which in any case will be nothing like as salt as the open sea)
and so will freeze almost as readily as a freshwater loch after even a single
night's frost. This happens regularly in many sheltered Scottish sealochs.
However, clearly for it to be thick enough for several people to walk on it,
there would have to be a prolonged period of frost.

I've quite often seen ice on the sea at the head of Loch Fyne but it's very
definitely salt water ice and not fresh water ice. It's mushy and flexible and
moulds itself over the boulders when the tide goes out. It's not hard and
brittle fresh water ice. Having said that, I'm sure the water is often rather
less salty than the open sea. I've never seen the ice anywhere near thick
enough to walk on, though.

--
Norman Lynagh
Tideswell, Derbyshire
303m a.s.l.