http://www.ospo.noaa.gov/data/sst/an....8.21.2014.gif

There seems to be quite an obvious contrast between SSt anomilies
between the northern and southern hemispheres. The Arctic is obviously
much warmer and continually melting, whereas the antartic seems to be
holding it's own and keeping if not cooling. I'm trying to fathom what
all this means and why such a contrast.
--
Keith (Southend)
"Weather Home & Abroad"
http://www.southendweather.net
Twitter:@LawnscienceEssx

"Keith (Southend)" wrote in message
...
http://www.ospo.noaa.gov/data/sst/an....8.21.2014.gif

There seems to be quite an obvious contrast between SSt anomilies between
the northern and southern hemispheres. The Arctic is obviously much warmer
and continually melting, whereas the antartic seems to be holding it's own
and keeping if not cooling. I'm trying to fathom what all this means and
why such a contrast.

I think the answer is sea ice. It reflects sunlight and causes cooling. The
reduction of sea ice in the Arctic is causing warming in the NH, and the
increase in sea ice in the Antarctic (hat tip to Lawrence) is causing the
cooling in the SH.

Cheers, Alastair.

On Saturday, 23 August 2014 21:20:29 UTC+1, Alastair wrote:
"Keith (Southend)" wrote in message

...

http://www.ospo.noaa.gov/data/sst/an....8.21.2014.gif



There seems to be quite an obvious contrast between SSt anomilies between

the northern and southern hemispheres. The Arctic is obviously much warmer

and continually melting, whereas the antartic seems to be holding it's own

and keeping if not cooling. I'm trying to fathom what all this means and

why such a contrast.



I think the answer is sea ice. It reflects sunlight and causes cooling. The

reduction of sea ice in the Arctic is causing warming in the NH, and the

increase in sea ice in the Antarctic (hat tip to Lawrence) is causing the

cooling in the SH.



Cheers, Alastair..

Yeah and warming is causing both........next


Oh by the way. How can you 'hat tip' someone you've kill filed...that's unethical that is.

On Sat, 23 Aug 2014 21:20:29 +0100
"Alastair McDonald" wrote:


"Keith (Southend)" wrote in message
...
http://www.ospo.noaa.gov/data/sst/an....8.21.2014.gif

There seems to be quite an obvious contrast between SSt anomilies
between the northern and southern hemispheres. The Arctic is
obviously much warmer and continually melting, whereas the antartic
seems to be holding it's own and keeping if not cooling. I'm trying
to fathom what all this means and why such a contrast.

I think the answer is sea ice. It reflects sunlight and causes
cooling. The reduction of sea ice in the Arctic is causing warming in
the NH, and the increase in sea ice in the Antarctic (hat tip to
Lawrence) is causing the cooling in the SH.


One problem with that idea is that the cooling in the Antarctic Ocean
pre-dates the increase in sea-ice. That's one reason for me coming up
with the idea that melting land-ice may have caused the cooling surface
waters and hence, increasing sea-ice.

There's some apparent contradiction if one follows the idea that warm
water below the ice-shelf has caused the increased land-ice melt but
the cold water is fresh and would lay on top of the warmer, saline
water.


--
Graham P Davis, Bracknell, Berks. Mail: 'newsman' not 'newsboy'.
"Minds are like parachutes. They only function when they're open". -
Lord Dewar (1864-1930)

"Graham P Davis" wrote in message
news:20140824104240.20a7abbe@home-1...
On Sat, 23 Aug 2014 21:20:29 +0100
"Alastair McDonald" wrote:


"Keith (Southend)" wrote in message
...
http://www.ospo.noaa.gov/data/sst/an....8.21.2014.gif

There seems to be quite an obvious contrast between SSt anomilies
between the northern and southern hemispheres. The Arctic is
obviously much warmer and continually melting, whereas the antartic
seems to be holding it's own and keeping if not cooling. I'm trying
to fathom what all this means and why such a contrast.

I think the answer is sea ice. It reflects sunlight and causes
cooling. The reduction of sea ice in the Arctic is causing warming in
the NH, and the increase in sea ice in the Antarctic (hat tip to
Lawrence) is causing the cooling in the SH.


One problem with that idea is that the cooling in the Antarctic Ocean
pre-dates the increase in sea-ice. That's one reason for me coming up
with the idea that melting land-ice may have caused the cooling surface
waters and hence, increasing sea-ice.

I am not aware that the Antarctic Ocean had cooled prior to the increase in
sea ice. Keith was curious about a cold anomally happening now.

There's some apparent contradiction if one follows the idea that warm
water below the ice-shelf has caused the increased land-ice melt but
the cold water is fresh and would lay on top of the warmer, saline
water.

I was thinking about that problem this morning and came up with an answer.
But I have just found this press release from 10 June 2014:
Researchers Find Major West Antarctic Glacier Melting from Geothermal
Sources
http://www.utexas.edu/news/2014/06/1...acier-melting/

But there is another web page here :
http://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/.../#.U_pL66MXNn4
about the ice shelves meting from below on which my hypothesis is based.

My idea is that during the summer the surface ice will melt and the ice
shelves get lighter. This will draw in salty water towards the grounding
line as it retreats due to the lighter ice shelve. The (warm) salty water
will melt the base of the ice shelf and form fresher water there. In winter
the annual increase in snow fall recorded there will cause the ice shelves
to sink and push the fresh water trapped under the shelves out to the edge
where it will form sea ice. This fits with Larry claim that the air
tempertures over Antarctica are not increasing, and also that there is
increase in snowfall. It also fits with this press release from NASA:
Warm Ocean Rapidly Melting Antarctic Ice Shelf from Below
http://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/.../#.U_pL66MXNn4
The video ends with them saying "The scientists will continue to analyse the
data from these instruments to learn more about seasonal changes in the
interaction of ocean and ice." which means they may confirm that it is in
fact a seasonal pump that is melting the ice from below as I am suggesting.

Cheers, Alastair.

One possibility is that the thermohaline circulation (THC) has accelerated. This would result in greater heat transport out of the Southern Ocean (this area would cool) whilst the North Atlantic in particular would warm. The sea ice would then respond to these temperature changes, increasing in volume in the SH and decreasing in the NH.

If this is indeed what is happening, there would be several other effects:

a) there would be a (temporary) reduction in surface temperature globally, with increased heat uptake in the deep ocean of the Atlantic, and upwelling of cooler Pacific waters.

b) the Atlantic would therefore warm more than the Pacific.

c) Arctic warming would be large, particularly in the Atlantic sector.

d) The Atlantic would become relatively more saline.

Brac

On Monday, August 25, 2014 9:12:20 PM UTC+1, Brac wrote:
One possibility is that the thermohaline circulation (THC) has accelerated. This would result in greater heat transport out of the Southern Ocean (this area would cool) whilst the North Atlantic in particular would warm. The sea ice would then respond to these temperature changes, increasing in volume in the SH and decreasing in the NH.



If this is indeed what is happening, there would be several other effects:



a) there would be a (temporary) reduction in surface temperature globally, with increased heat uptake in the deep ocean of the Atlantic, and upwelling of cooler Pacific waters.



b) the Atlantic would therefore warm more than the Pacific.



c) Arctic warming would be large, particularly in the Atlantic sector.



d) The Atlantic would become relatively more saline.


=====

I was reading about that sort of notion earlier on Monday, funnily enough. It's an idea that has traction, and researchers at MIT have argued thus:

"The ocean, because of its ability to absorb and transport enormous amounts of heat, plays a critical role in climate change. The authors argue that ocean circulation can explain why the Arctic has warmed faster than the Antarctic.

In MIT computer simulations of the ocean and climate, excess heat from greenhouse gas emissions is absorbed into the Southern Ocean around Antarctica and in the North Atlantic Ocean, but it doesn't linger. Instead, the moving ocean redistributes the heat. In the Southern Ocean, strong, northward-flowing currents pull the heat towards the equator, away from the Antarctica. In the North Atlantic Ocean, a separate northward-flowing current system shunts the heat into the Arctic. So while Antarctica warms only mildly, the Arctic Ocean's temperature increases quickly, accelerating sea-ice loss and warming the Arctic atmosphere."

http://phys.org/news/2014-08-ocean-c...lobal.html#jCp