Late yesterday, and through the early hours of this morning, media weather forecasters were falling over themselves to use the lazy catch-all get out clause of "hill snow".

But what does that mean to the public?

If they look to the hills, they may see white peaks? Or something else?


Greater Birmingham is on a hill, and has a population of many millions, but if they hear the phrase "hill snow" does that refer to them? Or to the tops of the Malverns and Long Mynd?

Similarly Huddersfield, and other northern cities that are well above sea level.

Ban it.


Otherwise to the current forecasting generation, the phrase "hill snow" will become as toxic as "hurricane" was to Michael Fish's era. Mark my words.

--
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On 13/03/2015 11:28, the pathetic trainspotting anorak wrote:
Late yesterday, and through the early hours of this morning, media weather forecasters were falling over
themselves to use the lazy catch-all get out clause of "hill snow".

But what does that mean to the public?

If they look to the hills, they may see white peaks? Or something else?


Greater Birmingham is on a hill, and has a population of many millions, but if they hear the phrase
"hill snow" does that refer to them? Or to the tops of the Malverns
and Long Mynd?

Similarly Huddersfield, and other northern cities that are well above sea level.

Huddersfield is in a valley, but if there is ever hill snow or fog then
it is usually found on the M62 between there and Manchester.

Certain places are prone to bad weather when everywhere else escapes
Peterlee in Durham often seems to cop for snow and fog problems that
comes in off the North Sea. Local geography does affect weather.

Ban it.

Seems a reasonable description to me that they should say hill snow as a
description of where the snowline is likely to be. It might help put off
those who cannot drive in bad weather from travelling. Last time I was
on the M62 a mere 1cm of snow gridlocked the entire road because of
stupid muppets that can't drive to save their lives.

Forecasters always ham up the risks under snowy conditions to try and
put off the Sunday afternoon motorists from going out and getting stuck.

Otherwise to the current forecasting generation, the phrase "hill snow" will become as toxic as "hurricane" was to Michael Fish's era. Mark my words.

Methinks you doth protest too much.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

On Friday, March 13, 2015 at 11:28:30 AM UTC, the pathetic trainspotting anorak wrote:
Late yesterday, and through the early hours of this morning, media weather forecasters were falling over themselves to use the lazy catch-all get out clause of "hill snow".

But what does that mean to the public?

If they look to the hills, they may see white peaks? Or something else?


Greater Birmingham is on a hill, and has a population of many millions, but if they hear the phrase "hill snow" does that refer to them? Or to the tops of the Malverns and Long Mynd?

Similarly Huddersfield, and other northern cities that are well above sea level.

Ban it.


Otherwise to the current forecasting generation, the phrase "hill snow" will become as toxic as "hurricane" was to Michael Fish's era. Mark my words.

--
Posted by Mimo Usenet Browser v0.2.5
http://www.mimousenet.com/mimo/post

Hello Yetti. I hope you are well. I'm happy with 'hill snow' but I understand the difficulties!

On 13 Mar 2015 11:42 AM ,Martin Brown wrote:
On 13/03/2015 11:28, the pathetic trainspotting anorak wrote:
Late yesterday, and through the early hours of this morning, media weather forecasters were falling over
themselves to use the lazy catch-all get out clause of "hill snow".

But what does that mean to the public?

If they look to the hills, they may see white peaks? Or something else?


Greater Birmingham is on a hill, and has a population of many millions, but if they hear the phrase
"hill snow" does that refer to them? Or to the tops of the Malverns
and Long Mynd?

Similarly Huddersfield, and other northern cities that are well above sea level.

Huddersfield is in a valley, but if there is ever hill snow or fog then
it is usually found on the M62 between there and Manchester.

Certain places are prone to bad weather when everywhere else escapes
Peterlee in Durham often seems to cop for snow and fog problems that
comes in off the North Sea. Local geography does affect weather.

Ban it.

Seems a reasonable description to me that they should say hill snow as a
description of where the snowline is likely to be. It might help put off
those who cannot drive in bad weather from travelling. Last time I was
on the M62 a mere 1cm of snow gridlocked the entire road because of
stupid muppets that can't drive to save their lives.

Forecasters always ham up the risks under snowy conditions to try and
put off the Sunday afternoon motorists from going out and getting stuck.

Otherwise to the current forecasting generation, the phrase "hill snow" will become as toxic as "hurricane" was to Michael Fish's era. Mark my words.

Methinks you doth protest too much.


Too much?

That was my first protest. You are a bit strict, if I may say so.

I will keep quiet on the subject of "thundery rain" and "wintry showers" in that case.

--
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I think it would be far more informative if the TV weather presenters phrased it "with snow above 300 metres" or whatever the snow level was.

One of my pet hates is the phrase "turning to snow over the higher ground" when more often than not snow is all that its ever been at that height.

Now you've got me going...

"Mist and murk" what exactly is murk? What about "extensive hill and coastal fog"

"From the word go" (a John Kettley one I think) Is that sunrise or maybe midnight?

"This great mass of cloud"

"Not amounting to very much"

Two great cliches from Bill Giles I think, that have stood the test of time but are still widely used.

"Tightly packed isobars" so how come they can't use complicated phrases such as cold and warm fronts but somehow think we understand about lines of equal pressure?

"North south split" and its near relation "east west split" another one from John Kettley or maybe Michael Fish.

"High pressure firmly in charge" a classic that never fails to irritate.

And of course the new ones like "temperatures in towns and cities"

And "what you've got now you'll keep" (or words to that effect) and "turning increasing cloudy"

I could go on but I think it might be better to give it a rest.

The definition of a hill is a problem. Here it could be a mere 300 feet, but in the Highlands it may be 2000.
Whatever the height, hills, however modest, are prone to snowfall, so a forecast should mention the level at which it is likely so we can take action, be that evasive or otherwise. Mention of the range of hills and altitude should suffice.
I've driven past the flatlands of Doncaster on a number of occasions and never failed to be amused by the cover on the very modest spoil heaps, surrounded by oceans of green. Not suggesting a forecast would need to be quite so accurate however.

On 13/03/15 22:00, wrote:
I think it would be far more informative if the TV weather presenters
phrased it "with snow above 300 metres" or whatever the snow level
was.

One of my pet hates is the phrase "turning to snow over the higher
ground" when more often than not snow is all that its ever been at
that height.

Now you've got me going...

"Mist and murk" what exactly is murk?

Just a bit less than 'fret' but more than 'clag'

On 13/03/2015 11:28, the pathetic trainspotting anorak wrote:
Late yesterday, and through the early hours of this morning, media weather forecasters were falling over themselves to use the lazy catch-all get out clause of "hill snow".

But what does that mean to the public?

How about 'It's going to be a cold old day so wrap up warm'.

Why when it is going to be cold or rainy the day always has to be old?

--
Nick Gardner
Otter Valley, Devon
20 m amsl
http://www.ottervalley.co.uk

On Saturday, 14 March 2015 14:18:21 UTC, Nick Gardner wrote:
On 13/03/2015 11:28, the pathetic trainspotting anorak wrote:
Late yesterday, and through the early hours of this morning, media weather forecasters were falling over themselves to use the lazy catch-all get out clause of "hill snow".

But what does that mean to the public?

How about 'It's going to be a cold old day so wrap up warm'.

Why when it is going to be cold or rainy the day always has to be old?

--
Nick Gardner
Otter Valley, Devon
20 m amsl
http://www.ottervalley.co.uk

It's a cold old day but only "out there" just in case you were thinking of wearing bobble hat and gloves in the living room.

I haven't got much of a problem with "hill snow". It means the precipitation is on the borderline between rain and snow and is not easy to forecast. In a coldish winter we get quite a bit of it here. Tricky old stuff.

Tudor Hughes, Warlingham, NE Surrey, 557 ft/169 m.

The forecasts used to be marked (don't know if this is still the case) so the more vague terms were, the better chance of a high score. Take, "in the north" as an example. Where exactly is that? It could be Shetland, the north coast of the Scottish mainland or, at a stretch, the north of England. Similarly, if you say, "in the east and then in the west", does that mean the east coast, the west coast or is there a line down the country that divides east and west? It's very difficult to mark forecasts when the terminology used is so vague.