On Thursday, 1 October 2015 14:01:53 UTC+1, wrote:
"xmetman" wrote in message
...
On Thursday, 1 October 2015 08:38:48 UTC+1,
wrote:
"Stephen Davenport" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 11:52:20 AM UTC-4, xmetman wrote:
On Tuesday, 29 September 2015 16:32:30 UTC+1, Stephen Davenport wrote:
On Tuesday, September 29, 2015 at 9:14:43 AM UTC-4, xmetman wrote:
This is the fifth sunny dry day in a row in mid-Devon but it's not
an
Indian Summer, because according to the BBC Weather presenters
"Indian
summers don't occur in September", and I've heard that a couple of
times today on the BBC.


=========

They would be wrong. It's not dependent on month but rather, strictly
speaking, a fine and warmer period after the first killing frost.
However, it is a term borrowed from North America (New England,
specifically); and perhaps we should return to the notions of Old
Wives' summer, St. Luke's summer and St. Martin's summer - the latter
two of which are date dependent (October and November respectively).

The AMS glossary summarizes Indian summer thus:

"A period, in mid- or late autumn, of abnormally warm weather,
generally
clear skies, sunny but hazy days, and cool nights.

In New England, at least one killing frost and preferably a
substantial
period of normally cool weather must precede this warm spell in order
for it to be considered a true "Indian summer." It does not occur
every
year, and in some years there may be two or three Indian summers. The
term is most often heard in the northeastern United States, but its
usage extends throughout English- speaking countries. It dates back at
least to 1778, but its origin is not certain; the most probable
suggestions relate it to the way that the American Indians availed
themselves of this extra opportunity to increase their winter stores.

The comparable period in Europe is termed the Old Wives' summer, and,
poetically, may be referred to as halcyon days. In England, dependent
upon dates of occurrence, such a period may be called St. Martin's
summer, St. Luke's summer, and formerly All-hallown summer."

Stephen

If the prerequisites for an indian summer depended on the first frost
(of
any type let alone a sharp one) in the British Isles, then most years
would be inelligible because the first frost is occuring later sometimes
well into December in recent years especially the south.

Bruce.

========

Which is why it is an unsatisfactory descriptor for the British Isles but
still a fine one for New England :-)

But the definition has popularly become much looser in the UK.
=====================

I just wish we give up the stupid notion altogether. Old wives summers,
indian summers, ... who cares, it's weather, it doesn't need a label.


Here's another example of another "label" that will probably feature quite
widely in the coming months:

"A sudden stratospheric warming (SSW) is an event where the polar vortex of
westerly winds in the winter hemisphere slows down or even reverses
direction over the course of a few days. The change is accompanied by a rise
of stratospheric temperature by several tens of kelvins"

But who cares it's just "weather" (albeit a bit more 21st than 18th century
in origin)!
=================

Enough of the stupid sarcasm Bruce, it does you no favours. SSW is not a
label but a scientific descriptive term for a phenomenon that has
implications for the general circulation. "Indian" summer and "Old wives"
summer mean nothing scientifically and indeed, are not even understood, as
indicated on here. No blog today?

Will
--
http://www.lyneside.demon.co.uk/Hayt...antage_Pro.htm
Will Hand (Haytor, Devon, 1017 feet asl)
---------------------------------------------

No doubt 'suckers punch' is something served at Christmas and one shouldn't imbibe and then drive as the roads become increasingly dangerous.

On Tuesday, 29 September 2015 14:14:43 UTC+1, xmetman wrote:
This is the fifth sunny dry day in a row in mid-Devon but it's not an Indian Summer, because according to the BBC Weather presenters "Indian summers don't occur in September", and I've heard that a couple of times today on the BBC.

I totally disagree with this notion, there are no rules to say that a prolonged spell of dry, sunny and mild spell of weather can't be classified as an Indian Summer - obviously it has to happen after the Summer (otherwise it would be an Indian Summer:-)) has ended i.e. in Autumn - so why only in October or November?

It's only a few week ago that the BBC presenters were announcing the fact that 'meteorological autumn' had started on the 1st of September, so using their rules on what constitutes the beginning and end of seasons, Indian Summers could start even before the equinox.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_summer
https://xmetman.wordpress.com/2014/0...-wives-summer/

Preliminary excursions into the causes of ocean oscillations. No idea if anyone bothers but here it is:

https://weatherlawyer.wordpress.com/...en-i-saw-this/

Please yourselves. I have, as usual, no respect for science or anything else on here (or on the BBC for that matter) so I expect nothing in return. (Fair's fare so two speak.)