On Tuesday, 15 March 2016 16:04:53 UTC, Brian Lawrence wrote:
On 15/03/2016 14:45, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Tuesday, 15 March 2016 11:02:50 UTC, Brian Lawrence wrote:
On 14/03/2016 15:52, Asha Santon wrote:

Disclaimer: This is a serious question which has everything to do with
how to count and nothing to do with religious beliefs. I ask it here
because some wise heads are present.

The date 1AD refers to the year a man I will call Yesus was born. It is
irrelevant whether it actually happened or not. Most of the world did
not know about it at the time anyway.

News of the event did not reach the British Isles for a very long time
so my question is this:

In the British Isles during the year we now call 1AD, what was the date
(year only)?

I don't even know how to look it up.
I am aware of the Gregorian, Julian, and AUC calendars but I don't want
to know what the date was in Rome.

The simple answer would be that at that time years would not be numbered
at all. The indigenous population would have had no need to know what
the year was, although they may have had some concept of their own age
or that of relatives. Ages would probably be related to 'x summers'.
The pre-Roman population can be characterised as Iron Age Britons
(mostly Celts). They are estimated to have numbered between 3 & 4
million (1stC BC).

Tribal elders may have kept some form of record which may have been
related to the number of years since an important event happened -
possibly when a village or tribal leader (or king) assumed 'office'.
Britain's tribal kings had mostly been allied to Rome since Caesars
so-called invasions over 50 years earlier, and might have used the Roman
calendar (revised by Julias Caesar in 46BC, hence the Julian Calendar),
but again the years were not numbered in the old BC style.

At that time the Romans identifed years by naming them after the two
consuls who took office during the year. This was known as the consular
year. They also used the regnal year of the Emperor. Occasionally they
might have used the number of years since the founding of Rome, or ab
urba condita (AUC).

[snipped my next paragraph which has been garbled beyond recognition]

Radio carbon dating goes back over 500 years and proves that people had the IQ rating
one might find in an exceptional primary school these days;

I was going to point out that radiocarbon dating was first developed in
the 1940s which wasn't 500 years ago, but OTOH it has been used to date
samples which were well over 10,000 years old. It cannot be used to
determine IQ in any circumstances. But then I read further ....

and realised it would be futile to continue :-)

You deserved that for suggesting my ancestors were monkeys. What are you dawlish?

No hard feeling I hope but radio carbon dating will only work if regeneration of nuclear particles doesn't happen deep underground. In fact all isotope dating depends on something we are more or less all ignorant about yet stupidly willing to accept.

That sort of attitude might be expected from a flowerpotman but this is UK Sci weather.

Some of us are British and some of us are sentient. Some of us but by no means all, are even interested in the weather. For the rest, it all stopped at the Reading Room Exit door.

Just because there were people on the planet who remained unaware of the importance of the date the first year began it doesn't follow that any of them were as stoooopid as, for a perfect example, a Paul Garvey meme.

What we have gained in our ability to make war with weapons of mass destruction we have lost in the ability to feed ourselves. Just exactly who are the stupid?

On 15/03/2016 16:36, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Tuesday, 15 March 2016 16:04:53 UTC, Brian Lawrence wrote:
On 15/03/2016 14:45, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Tuesday, 15 March 2016 11:02:50 UTC, Brian Lawrence wrote:
On 14/03/2016 15:52, Asha Santon wrote:

Disclaimer: This is a serious question which has everything to do with
how to count and nothing to do with religious beliefs. I ask it here
because some wise heads are present.

The date 1AD refers to the year a man I will call Yesus was born. It is
irrelevant whether it actually happened or not. Most of the world did
not know about it at the time anyway.

News of the event did not reach the British Isles for a very long time
so my question is this:

In the British Isles during the year we now call 1AD, what was the date
(year only)?

I don't even know how to look it up.
I am aware of the Gregorian, Julian, and AUC calendars but I don't want
to know what the date was in Rome.

The simple answer would be that at that time years would not be numbered
at all. The indigenous population would have had no need to know what
the year was, although they may have had some concept of their own age
or that of relatives. Ages would probably be related to 'x summers'.
The pre-Roman population can be characterised as Iron Age Britons
(mostly Celts). They are estimated to have numbered between 3 & 4
million (1stC BC).

Tribal elders may have kept some form of record which may have been
related to the number of years since an important event happened -
possibly when a village or tribal leader (or king) assumed 'office'.
Britain's tribal kings had mostly been allied to Rome since Caesars
so-called invasions over 50 years earlier, and might have used the Roman
calendar (revised by Julias Caesar in 46BC, hence the Julian Calendar),
but again the years were not numbered in the old BC style.

At that time the Romans identifed years by naming them after the two
consuls who took office during the year. This was known as the consular
year. They also used the regnal year of the Emperor. Occasionally they
might have used the number of years since the founding of Rome, or ab
urba condita (AUC).

[snipped my next paragraph which has been garbled beyond recognition]

Radio carbon dating goes back over 500 years and proves that people had the IQ rating
one might find in an exceptional primary school these days;

I was going to point out that radiocarbon dating was first developed in
the 1940s which wasn't 500 years ago, but OTOH it has been used to date
samples which were well over 10,000 years old. It cannot be used to
determine IQ in any circumstances. But then I read further ....

and realised it would be futile to continue :-)

You deserved that for suggesting my ancestors were monkeys. What are you dawlish?

No hard feeling I hope but radio carbon dating will only work if regeneration of nuclear particles doesn't happen deep underground. In fact all isotope dating depends on something we are more or less all ignorant about yet stupidly willing to accept.

That sort of attitude might be expected from a flowerpotman but this is UK Sci weather.

Some of us are British and some of us are sentient. Some of us but by no means all, are even interested in the weather. For the rest, it all stopped at the Reading Room Exit door.

Just because there were people on the planet who remained unaware of the importance of the date the first year began it doesn't follow that any of them were as stoooopid as, for a perfect example, a Paul Garvey meme.

What we have gained in our ability to make war with weapons of mass destruction we have lost in the ability to feed ourselves. Just exactly who are the stupid?

I could make a wild guess.

On 15/03/2016 11:03, Brian Lawrence wrote:
On 14/03/2016 15:52, Asha Santon wrote:

Disclaimer: This is a serious question which has everything to do with
how to count and nothing to do with religious beliefs. I ask it here
because some wise heads are present.

The date 1AD refers to the year a man I will call Yesus was born. It is
irrelevant whether it actually happened or not. Most of the world did
not know about it at the time anyway.

News of the event did not reach the British Isles for a very long time
so my question is this:

In the British Isles during the year we now call 1AD, what was the date
(year only)?

I don't even know how to look it up.
I am aware of the Gregorian, Julian, and AUC calendars but I don't want
to know what the date was in Rome.

The simple answer would be that at that time years would not be numbered
at all. The indigenous population would have had no need to know what
the year was, although they may have had some concept of their own age
or that of relatives. Ages would probably be related to 'x summers'.
The pre-Roman population can be characterised as Iron Age Britons
(mostly Celts). They are estimated to have numbered between 3 & 4
million (1stC BC).

I imagine that knowing what time of year it was, in relation to crop
planting/harvesting etc was of vastly greater importance than the actual
year.

--
Col

Bolton, Lancashire
160m asl
Snow videos:
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3QvmL4UWBmHFMKWiwYm_gg

Oh! Don't be silly.

On 15/03/2016 00:33, Weatherlawyer wrote:

Julius Caesar had the court astronomers reckon the length of the year quite accurately and
the year was divided into 10 months. Later this was changed to honour dead people
(not called Februs evidently.)

The Roman year changed from 10 months to 12 long before Caesar's time.

The 10 month year was attributed to Romulus, co-founder of Rome. There
is no real evidence that this was so, but the format of the so-called
Romulan calendar was well documented by Roman writers.

The 7th, 8th, 9th & 10th months were named by their position, which is
why they are SEPTember, OCTober, NOVember & DECember. Interestingly the
first four months had names that are also still familiar - Martius (the
god Mars), Aprilis ('opening'?), Maius (the goddess Maia) & Iunius
(poss. for Juno). The fifth month, QUINtilis, was renamed after Julius
Caesar, and the sixth, SEXtilis, after Augustus Caesar.

The additional two months are said to have been added by Numa Pompilius,
king of Rome (715-673 BC). The 10-month calendar had consisted of 304
days, with each month being either 30 or 31 days long. The days between
the end of December and the beginning of March were termed 'winter days'.

Romans considered even numbers unlucky, so Numa removed one day from
the six months of 30 days, and combined them with the 51 winter days
to form Ianuarius (29 days) & Februarius (28 days). These were
originally added as the 11th & 12th months, but Jan 01 later became the
first day of a new year (poss. by Julius Caesar). Ianuaris may have been
named for Janus or Juno, while Februarius may come from februum (a thing
used for ritual purification).

Quintilis was renamed Julius after Caesar's death in 44BC - it was
chosen because it was his birth month. Similarly Sextilis was renamed
Augustus in 8 BC, while Augustus was still Emperor.

Julius Caesar oversaw changes in 46 BC, which were introduced in 45 BC
and are now known as the Julian calendar. It fixed the year as 365 days
with the extra leap day added every four years (Feb 29). This was still
only an approximation of the solar year and the difference between that
and the calendar increased to ~11 days by the time Pope Gregory
introduced the Gregorian calendar in October 1582 - Thu Oct 04 was
followed by Fri Oct 15. The changeover took place in different countries
at different time, with Britain changing in 1752, and, most-recently,
Greece in 1923.

The Gregorian calendar removed the leap day in years which were
divisible by 400, so far only 1600 & 2000.

On Wednesday, 16 March 2016 11:10:00 UTC, Brian Lawrence wrote:

Julius Caesar oversaw changes in 46 BC, which were introduced in 45 BC
and are now known as the Julian calendar.

As opposed to Julian epochs named after the father of the bloke who made it up to Julian years of a thousand days?
It's all a bit beyond my meagre ration od mathematica:
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php...ulltext=Search

Or interests.

On Tuesday, 15 March 2016 18:12:17 UTC, Col wrote:

I imagine that knowing what time of year it was, in
relation to crop planting/harvesting etc was of vastly
greater importance than the actual year.

Not that the ability of our ancestors was anything less than what it is today:

The brown clay tablet, which could fit in the palm of your hand, is scrawled with hasty, highly abbreviated cuneiform characters. Ancient Babylonians used a complex geometrical model that looks like a rudimentary form of integral calculus to calculate the path of Jupiter.

All that from what was the equivalent of scratched on the back of an envelope:

http://www.livescience.com/53518-bab...ancy-math.html

I suppose it would be too much to ask the present day experts to wonder what importance Jupiter would have been for crop rotation way back then?

"if they keep quiet, the stones will cry out."

Luke 19:40. Do you think the modern flowerpot will have that kind of staying power?

No need?