One of the first things I can recall about the North Atlantic that seems applicable now is the way that some storms seem to follow the water north out of it from time to time.
Like it is doing now:
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/public/w...ime=1474113600

It never occurred to me to watch what it was doing to ice levels because I wasn't interested. In all the time that has passed from Franklin to date, there has never been a reliable North West passage for trade, like the one discovered through the point of South America -which was explored by the FitzRoy expedition to save the cost of damage to vessels going around the peninsular, there was always a permanent way through there, even if it was the Australian route.

Now that we seem to finally have a North West passage despite the hopes of the sheep that we can do something to prevent that happening, the value of it to Europeans is considerably diminished since China no longer belongs to Britain, nor does India.

Nor does it look like the USA will get its hands on them, in fact China seems to have become the owner of the USA. (The statue in Daniel is dead enough to lie down, now.)
All that money developing terrifying weapons and what do they have to show for it?

In WW1 it became viable for trade with Australia but only because the political need was forced on Britain and freighters were large enough to make a small profit once the retail magnates had made their gross. Farming was still a risky business whoever was doing it.

And the reason that I am keeping Stooopid's thread open is not to allow 24/7 for the Col/Jenkins children to play in. I don't need a kill file to realise I don't wish to bother with them. And if they annoy anyone; too bad. Get lives, or go and play with the other losers on pastures new.

I think that once the oceans decide to settle down again, the ice will reform. The only alternative is to believe liars know what they are talking about. He may not be blessing me but I am certain god isn't going to be blessing them and I want to see it not happen. I don't think I should be vengeful.. But if anyone can be so blatantly stupid as to ignore everyone all the time then it only remains to be seen what happens next.

It is inevitable that water freezes once it gets down to about minus 2 C. What seems to have escaped discussion is that it only seems to get to be 8 feet thick before it all goes away again. If there was no cycle going on in times past, why was it not much thicker?
In the Antarctic the ice goes right down to the sea floor.

Had the Royal Navy been building welded freighters three or four inches thick in the 1800's we would not be having conversations about ice in Antarctica, because all the men that go there would be dealing with it.

Had they allowed free men to use nuclear reactors in their ships, international trade would have been using submarines a long long time ago. Not just because the north would have been navigable but because it makes economic sense to go under the sea. There is less stress to the metal that way and the route ships take is a lot smoother.
But we belong to people who don't allow such freedoms, for all the rhetoric, nations still prefer to use plutonium in ships. With all the problems that entails.

None the less there does seem to be a lot of pumping going on in the Arctic at last. It doesn't get anywhere near the energy values of the Antarctic. And it doesn't last long, either. Just some perspective to allow anyone that wants to follow things through all these arguments about glowballs. It will be (IMO) interesting to become informed about all this sort of thing for once and for all, do you not think?

And now for the monkeys; we have to suggest a first cause, a more mundane one than the unacceptable god dogma, obviously.

Snipped 700 words of wisdom just to show that I really care.

Obviously I know what is going on as you can tell from the previous post. I thought I might just point out the obvious to start others off thinking if they are too tired to contemplate such stuff on their own:

With the storms in the northern seas a considerable amount of water is sorted out. I turns from salt to fresh and fresh water flows into the Arctic via the Norwegian Sea. Obviously this has to push a lot of brine out of the way.

And that brine hold a lot of heat you won't find on any of dawlish's posts.

Another thing I should have mentioned on another thread yesterday:

400 parts per million is 1 pound in 2500lb (in the UK that is 1.116071 tons) and a column of air 60 miles high only weighs 15 pounds for every square inch of sea level.

It would take 166.666666667 such columns, that is 0.116 square feet to contain 1 lb of carbon dioxide. I am amazed that the creator had the sense to make carbondioxide heavier than air, because, even spread so thinly he manages to feed us well on so little.

It doesn't sound so much in square feet but if co2 wasn't heavier than air it would be spread out 60 miles high with no reason to come back down. I don't think realising how close we are to annihilation makes living on the edge any more difficult. Nor that showing him some appreciation makes all that much difference to him but I am sure that me showing him my appreciation makes my life a lot richer.

If it is any consolation to anybody else, I am sorry for being me. But the truth is the truth no matter who it hurts.

On Sunday, 18 September 2016 09:11:29 UTC+1, Weatherlawyer wrote:


If it is any consolation to anybody else, I am sorry for being me. But the truth is the truth no matter who it hurts.

I am being held up by my inability to formulate a search for what the physics may be with or without a lid of ice on the Arctic ocean.

My vast brain says it is magnified but the results say that it can't be, or the thermohaline column would be disrupted. Maybe I should ask the god who doesn't blind the minds of unbelievers what is going on.

On Monday, 19 September 2016 05:11:07 UTC+1, Weatherlawyer wrote:
On Sunday, 18 September 2016 09:11:29 UTC+1, Weatherlawyer wrote:


If it is any consolation to anybody else, I am sorry for being me. But the truth is the truth no matter who it hurts.

I am being held up by my inability to formulate a search for what the physics may be with or without a lid of ice on the Arctic ocean.

My vast brain says it is magnified but the results say that it can't be, or the thermohaline column would be disrupted. Maybe I should ask the god who doesn't blind the minds of unbelievers what is going on.

The first thing to ask the engineers is what does it do?
The Arctic Icecap appears to be designed rto feed whales in the season. They only eat krill for some reason and seem to prefer to travel the planets each year just to feed for a few weeks or so.

When volcanic ash falls to the sea bed it feeds the creation at the bottom of the sea, first. The ash being heavier than water, that which does not dissolve sinks.

If it lands on ice it is developed by algae into plant food enjoyed by krill which will be released to the creation below the surface in god's own time. Somehow they know when it is going to arrive. What we don't know is how. I think that that is a protection for animals and vegetables since the MO of world governments it to ruin everything they can. (As we have all seen with the exploits/depredations of flowerpottery everywhere recently.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_ice is a website I am growing to detest for its fascist persuasion so beware the yeast of the Pharisees.

On Tuesday, 20 September 2016 08:23:11 UTC+1, Weatherlawyer wrote:


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_ice is a website I am growing to detest for its fascist persuasion so beware the yeast of the Pharisees.

A case in point is this paragraph:
Driving forces

While fast ice is relatively stable (because it is attached to the shoreline or the seabed), drift (or pack) ice undergoes relatively complex deformation processes that ultimately give rise to sea ice’s typically wide variety of landscapes. Wind is thought to be the main driving force along with ocean currents. The Coriolis force and sea ice surface tilt have also been invoked. These driving forces induce a state of stress within the drift ice zone.

An ice floe converging toward another and pushing against it will generate a state of compression at the boundary between both. The ice cover may also undergo a state of tension, resulting in divergence and fissure opening. If two floes drift sideways past each other while remaining in contact, this will create a state of shear.

It set out the basic concept of ice forming as crystals flowing freely or as sediment growing stuck on more solid structures. The free pancakes flow into rafts as plastic, semi-liquids. Then it all got lost.

The author actually mentions "shear" which is a property of gases and liquids and part of the reason Coriolis forces can not be occurring. (For which see: perfect fluids.)
And then it mentions compression as a driving force without explaining that ice under stress deforms and melts and presumably requires quite massive interference to occur.

But it all makes fascinating, if rather vapid, sense if you are daft enough to believe what you are told without thinking about it.