Somebody posted the following link in uk.local.surrey:

http://www.thamesweb.co.uk/windsor/w.../freeze63.html

It's a fascinating read.
--
John Hall

"I don't even butter my bread; I consider that cooking."
Katherine Cebrian

"John Hall" wrote in message
...
Somebody posted the following link in uk.local.surrey:

http://www.thamesweb.co.uk/windsor/w.../freeze63.html

It's a fascinating read.

A very fascinating read indeed :-))

'twas me who posted the article. At the age of 3 in 1939 I moved to Kingston
on Thames near to Ham Common. Believe it or not I can remember the move :-))
However it was the business of being pushed across the Thames in my push
chair in the vacinity of the Sea Scout Hut between the 'Half Mile Tree' and
Turks Boat House which has played on my mind for yonks. Did it happen? Have
I been recalling a dream? Yes I am certain to the first question, and no to
the second. Any more clues anybody? The 1940's winter, not the 62/63 which I
also remember, though I was in Leicester at the time.

Mike


--
Royal Naval Reunion Shanklin I.of Wight (Inc Ferry Fare) 30th Jan - 1st Feb
H.M.S.Andromeda Association Reunion Coventry Feb 27th - 29th
Federation of Naval Associations Reunion Hayling Island March 5th - 8th.
H.M.S.Loch Fada Association Reunion Scarborough April 2nd - 5th

On Sat, 6 Dec 2003 18:45:52 +0000 (UTC), Mike wrote in


http://www.thamesweb.co.uk/windsor/w.../freeze63.html

It's a fascinating read.

A very fascinating read indeed :-))

'twas me who posted the article. At the age of 3 in 1939 I moved to Kingston
on Thames near to Ham Common. Believe it or not I can remember the move :-))
However it was the business of being pushed across the Thames in my push
chair in the vacinity of the Sea Scout Hut between the 'Half Mile Tree' and
Turks Boat House which has played on my mind for yonks. Did it happen? Have
I been recalling a dream? Yes I am certain to the first question, and no to
the second. Any more clues anybody? The 1940's winter, not the 62/63 which I
also remember, though I was in Leicester at the time.

Mike

I answered you in another ng, but hopefully one of our resident climate
historians can answer your question about the Thames freezing over in
January 1940. I gave you the 17th (or just after) as a possible date.


Does anyone have any material that suggests the Thames was so frozen it
would allow people to walk on it during that month.

--
Mike Coleraine posted to uk.sci.weather 06/12/2003 19:04:24 UTC
My aurora images here http://www.mtullett.plus.com/29a-oct and
http://www.mtullett.plus.com/20-nov/

I answered you in another ng, but hopefully one of our resident climate
historians can answer your question about the Thames freezing over in
January 1940. I gave you the 17th (or just after) as a possible date.


Does anyone have any material that suggests the Thames was so frozen it
would allow people to walk on it during that month.

--
Mike Coleraine posted to uk.sci.weather 06/12/2003 19:04:24 UTC
My aurora images here http://www.mtullett.plus.com/29a-oct and
http://www.mtullett.plus.com/20-nov/

Yes thanks indeed. Someone else, and I am unable to find it now I want it
:-(( added that it may have been either the 8th or the 10th, but who is
arguing? Not me, just grateful that I havn't been dreaming it for the last
60 odd years!!

My sister is 5 years older than me and I feel sure she said that she pushed
my onto, as opposed to 'into' the Thames when I was in my pram.

Mike

"Mike" wrote in message
...

Yes thanks indeed. Someone else, and I am unable to find it now I want it
:-(( added that it may have been either the 8th or the 10th, but who is
arguing? Not me, just grateful that I havn't been dreaming it for the last
60 odd years!!

My sister is 5 years older than me and I feel sure she said that she
pushed
my onto, as opposed to 'into' the Thames when I was in my pram.

I found the following which suggests that the river did not freeze all the
way
across at Teddington during any winter between 1895 and 1963. I am,
of course, happy to defer to anyone who knows any better.

http://www.the-river-thames.co.uk/weather.htm

Philip Eden

"Philip Eden" philipATweatherHYPHENukDOTcom wrote in message
.. .


I found the following which suggests that the river did not freeze all the
way
across at Teddington during any winter between 1895 and 1963. I am,
of course, happy to defer to anyone who knows any better.

http://www.the-river-thames.co.uk/weather.htm

And on a rather different note from the above I found this bizzare
statement on this website:

HEAT-WAVE

There were four major glacial periods when there were long spells of intense
cold. Between these periods the climatic conditions improved and temperatures
rose - called 'interglacials'. During one of these, the temperature rose to such
an extent that the climate in the Thames Valley was similar to that in Central
Africa today.

Assuming these were the interglacials of the last 100 thousand years
or so, how did we ever get equatorial conditions in Southern England?

Col
--
Bolton, Lancashire.
160m asl.
http://www.reddwarfer.btinternet.co.uk

"Col" wrote in message
...

"Philip Eden" philipATweatherHYPHENukDOTcom wrote in message
.. .


I found the following which suggests that the river did not freeze all the
way
across at Teddington during any winter between 1895 and 1963. I am,
of course, happy to defer to anyone who knows any better.

http://www.the-river-thames.co.uk/weather.htm

And on a rather different note from the above I found this bizzare
statement on this website:

HEAT-WAVE

There were four major glacial periods when there were long spells of intense
cold. Between these periods the climatic conditions improved and
temperatures
rose - called 'interglacials'. During one of these, the temperature rose to
such
an extent that the climate in the Thames Valley was similar to that in
Central
Africa today.

Assuming these were the interglacials of the last 100 thousand years
or so, how did we ever get equatorial conditions in Southern England?

The last interglacial was the Emian 100,000 years ago. Within glacial
periods such as the one since then, there are mini glacials and interglacials
called stadials and interstadials. 14,000 years ago (bp) we were in the
Windermere interstadial when temperature may have been warmer
than today. 12,000 bp we were in the Loch Lomond readvance or
Younger Dryas stadial when an ice sheet reformed in the Scottish Highlands.

The Ice Age has lasted about 2 million years and for the last 400,000
years there has been an interglacial every 100,000 years. See;
http://www.grida.no/climate/vital/02.htm
We are currently in an interglacial but earlier ones have been warmer.

As I see it, there is a danger we will switch into a warmer state, like
that of Central Africa, due to the greenhouse effect.

AFAIK the climate modellers do not know how this warmer state arose,
so they keep quiet about it. They can hardly publish a paper entitled
"Past changes in British climate not simulated by the HadCM3 AOGCM. "

I reckon I have worked out how it happens, but I do not have the
personal or technical skills and prestige to get my ideas across to
those who matter. If anyone thinks they can help, contact me by e-mail.

As I see it, the sudden large changes in climate are caused by the
greenhouse effect of water vapour. If the planet warms, then more
water is evaporated from the oceans, causing further warming and
further evaporation. This cascade halts when cloud cover has
increased such that the new albedo prevents further warming.

Cloud cover is not directly proportional to humidity, therefore for
the cascade to end, it may mean a major reorganisation of the
climate system. For instance, if the Arctic ice disappears, there
will be a loss of albedo which will cause warming. More water
vapour will lead to further warming, and loss of the Polar Front.
This will reduce cloud cover in temperate regions, further
reducing albedo. Only when the inter tropical convergence
zone has widened to reach the latitude of Britain will there
be enough cloud for rapid warming to stop. We will then be
in the state we were in at the last interglacial with a tropical climate.
Presumably, the Arctic Ocean was ice free then too.

Perhaps you can now see why I am so worried about global
warming. It just seems like a bad dream, but the Younger Dryas
stadial and the Emian interglacial did happen.

Cheers, Alastair.

"Alastair McDonald" k wrote
in message ...

"Col" wrote in message
...

"Philip Eden" philipATweatherHYPHENukDOTcom wrote in message
.. .


I found the following which suggests that the river did not freeze all
the
way
across at Teddington during any winter between 1895 and 1963. I am,
of course, happy to defer to anyone who knows any better.

http://www.the-river-thames.co.uk/weather.htm

And on a rather different note from the above I found this bizzare
statement on this website:

HEAT-WAVE

There were four major glacial periods when there were long spells of
intense
cold. Between these periods the climatic conditions improved and
temperatures
rose - called 'interglacials'. During one of these, the temperature rose
to
such
an extent that the climate in the Thames Valley was similar to that in
Central
Africa today.

Assuming these were the interglacials of the last 100 thousand years
or so, how did we ever get equatorial conditions in Southern England?

The last interglacial was the Emian 100,000 years ago. Within glacial
periods such as the one since then, there are mini glacials and
interglacials
called stadials and interstadials. 14,000 years ago (bp) we were in the
Windermere interstadial when temperature may have been warmer
than today. 12,000 bp we were in the Loch Lomond readvance or
Younger Dryas stadial when an ice sheet reformed in the Scottish
Highlands.

The Ice Age has lasted about 2 million years and for the last 400,000
years there has been an interglacial every 100,000 years. See;
http://www.grida.no/climate/vital/02.htm
We are currently in an interglacial but earlier ones have been warmer.

As I see it, there is a danger we will switch into a warmer state, like
that of Central Africa, due to the greenhouse effect.

AFAIK the climate modellers do not know how this warmer state arose,
so they keep quiet about it. They can hardly publish a paper entitled
"Past changes in British climate not simulated by the HadCM3 AOGCM. "

I reckon I have worked out how it happens, but I do not have the
personal or technical skills and prestige to get my ideas across to
those who matter. If anyone thinks they can help, contact me by e-mail.

As I see it, the sudden large changes in climate are caused by the
greenhouse effect of water vapour. If the planet warms, then more
water is evaporated from the oceans, causing further warming and
further evaporation. This cascade halts when cloud cover has
increased such that the new albedo prevents further warming.

Cloud cover is not directly proportional to humidity, therefore for
the cascade to end, it may mean a major reorganisation of the
climate system. For instance, if the Arctic ice disappears, there
will be a loss of albedo which will cause warming. More water
vapour will lead to further warming, and loss of the Polar Front.
This will reduce cloud cover in temperate regions, further
reducing albedo. Only when the inter tropical convergence
zone has widened to reach the latitude of Britain will there
be enough cloud for rapid warming to stop. We will then be
in the state we were in at the last interglacial with a tropical climate.
Presumably, the Arctic Ocean was ice free then too.

Perhaps you can now see why I am so worried about global
warming. It just seems like a bad dream, but the Younger Dryas
stadial and the Emian interglacial did happen.

Cheers, Alastair.

Although I am by no means, a climatological expert, in a warming World your
above idea to me makes more sense than the issues covered in the recent
Horizon program where the suggestion is the switching off of the Gulf Stream
would cause a major cooling of this part of the World. I find the latter
difficult to understand on the basis that, yes there may be major chnges to
the Gulf Stream, but if these are caused by significant melting of the
Arctic Ice and subsequent warming of the Northern Continental regions, then
how would we cool to the extent suggested by that programme? I would have
thought that if our local climate is affected by such a major change, any
cooling would be much less than that suggested and more likely, we may just
have quieter 'high pressure' dominated winters but not repeated 1947/63 type
winters with ice bound ports or anything like that. But then, what do I know
about it?....

"Alastair McDonald" k wrote
in message ...

"Col" wrote in message
...

"Philip Eden" philipATweatherHYPHENukDOTcom wrote in message
.. .


I found the following which suggests that the river did not freeze all
the
way
across at Teddington during any winter between 1895 and 1963. I am,
of course, happy to defer to anyone who knows any better.

http://www.the-river-thames.co.uk/weather.htm

And on a rather different note from the above I found this bizzare
statement on this website:

HEAT-WAVE

There were four major glacial periods when there were long spells of
intense
cold. Between these periods the climatic conditions improved and
temperatures
rose - called 'interglacials'. During one of these, the temperature rose
to
such
an extent that the climate in the Thames Valley was similar to that in
Central
Africa today.

Assuming these were the interglacials of the last 100 thousand years
or so, how did we ever get equatorial conditions in Southern England?

The last interglacial was the Emian 100,000 years ago. Within glacial
periods such as the one since then, there are mini glacials and
interglacials
called stadials and interstadials. 14,000 years ago (bp) we were in the
Windermere interstadial when temperature may have been warmer
than today. 12,000 bp we were in the Loch Lomond readvance or
Younger Dryas stadial when an ice sheet reformed in the Scottish
Highlands.

The Ice Age has lasted about 2 million years and for the last 400,000
years there has been an interglacial every 100,000 years. See;
http://www.grida.no/climate/vital/02.htm
We are currently in an interglacial but earlier ones have been warmer.

As I see it, there is a danger we will switch into a warmer state, like
that of Central Africa, due to the greenhouse effect.

AFAIK the climate modellers do not know how this warmer state arose,
so they keep quiet about it. They can hardly publish a paper entitled
"Past changes in British climate not simulated by the HadCM3 AOGCM. "

I reckon I have worked out how it happens, but I do not have the
personal or technical skills and prestige to get my ideas across to
those who matter. If anyone thinks they can help, contact me by e-mail.

As I see it, the sudden large changes in climate are caused by the
greenhouse effect of water vapour. If the planet warms, then more
water is evaporated from the oceans, causing further warming and
further evaporation. This cascade halts when cloud cover has
increased such that the new albedo prevents further warming.

Cloud cover is not directly proportional to humidity, therefore for
the cascade to end, it may mean a major reorganisation of the
climate system. For instance, if the Arctic ice disappears, there
will be a loss of albedo which will cause warming. More water
vapour will lead to further warming, and loss of the Polar Front.
This will reduce cloud cover in temperate regions, further
reducing albedo. Only when the inter tropical convergence
zone has widened to reach the latitude of Britain will there
be enough cloud for rapid warming to stop. We will then be
in the state we were in at the last interglacial with a tropical climate.
Presumably, the Arctic Ocean was ice free then too.

Perhaps you can now see why I am so worried about global
warming. It just seems like a bad dream, but the Younger Dryas
stadial and the Emian interglacial did happen.

Cheers, Alastair.


Although I am by no means, a climatological expert, in a warming World your
above idea to me makes more sense than the issues covered in the recent
Horizon program where the suggestion is the switching off of the Gulf Stream
would cause a major cooling of this part of the World. I find the latter
difficult to understand on the basis that, yes there may be major changes to
the Gulf Stream, but if these are caused by significant melting of the
Arctic Ice and subsequent warming of the Northern Continental regions, then
how would we cool to the extent suggested by that programme? I would have
thought that if our local climate is affected by such a major change, any
cooling would be much less than that suggested and more likely, we may just
have quieter 'high pressure' dominated winters but not repeated 1947/63 type
winters with ice bound ports or anything like that. But then, what do I know
about it?....

--
Pete

---------------------------------------------------------------
The views expressed above are entirely those of the writer and
do not represent the views, policy or understanding of any
other person or official body.
---------------------------------------------------------------

"Pete B" wrote in message
news:3fd46a10$0$902$9b0f33e3@clyde...
"Alastair McDonald" k wrote
in message ...

Snip ...

Although I am by no means, a climatological expert, in a warming World your
above idea to me makes more sense than the issues covered in the recent
Horizon program where the suggestion is the switching off of the Gulf Stream
would cause a major cooling of this part of the World. I find the latter
difficult to understand on the basis that, yes there may be major changes to
the Gulf Stream, but if these are caused by significant melting of the
Arctic Ice and subsequent warming of the Northern Continental regions, then
how would we cool to the extent suggested by that programme? I would have
thought that if our local climate is affected by such a major change, any
cooling would be much less than that suggested and more likely, we may just
have quieter 'high pressure' dominated winters but not repeated 1947/63 type
winters with ice bound ports or anything like that. But then, what do I know
about it?....

It nice to hear that you agree with me. Most people do, but the scientists
seem
to resent my muscleing in on their field. Actually the top scientist in this
field at
present, Wally Broecker, agrees with us. See his "poking an angry beast"
article.
http://faculty.washington.edu/wcalvi...roecker99.html

Cheers, Alastair.