Good morning all!

We had some very interesting weather-days.
Starting Sundaymorning with a gale force 10. Gusting up to 110 km/h. As it
was a north-westerly the sea, before the Dutch coast, reached dangerous
level; and a "red alert" was given for dike-guards, particularly in the
north-and northwest. Also the big weir in the East Scheldt ("
Oosterschelde-kering") was closed -- for the first time again in seven
years. Back to February 1953! But our low-lands are somewhat better
protected now :-)).
Polar air brought some snow-showers yesterday -- and today a new warmth
front tries to cross our country; but there's also some cold continental
air; resulting in a nice battlefield :-))! Eventually the warm air will
win -- but its the question how long it'll take.
For the time being the world around Zeewolde and further east is white
:-))).

Wijke
The Netherlands, SE Flevopolder ms 3 m asl
Tc + 0.0 C - 1020,6 hPa falling -- S 4, backing SE - 95%

"Wijke" wrote in message
...
Good morning all!

We had some very interesting weather-days.
snip
Polar air brought some snow-showers yesterday -- and today a new warmth
front tries to cross our country; but there's also some cold
continental
air; resulting in a nice battlefield :-))! Eventually the warm air
will
win -- but its the question how long it'll take.
For the time being the world around Zeewolde and further east is white
:-))).


.... an interesting tale: a passing thought - as KNMI would have had the
same problems with the past few days due to strong winds, rain vs. snow
etc., how are things done in Holland (i.e 'Early Warnings' , Severe
Warnings etc.)? And is there as much grumbling when those that want the
snow don't get it ;-)

Martin.

"Martin Rowley" schreef in bericht
...

... an interesting tale: a passing thought - as KNMI would have had the
same problems with the past few days due to strong winds, rain vs. snow
etc., how are things done in Holland (i.e 'Early Warnings' , Severe
Warnings etc.)? And is there as much grumbling when those that want the
snow don't get it ;-)

snip Really had to think about that, Martin. In the first place today's
snow over Holland was very very uncertain even until last night, for it was
hard to estimate how far the temperature would drop below - so how cold the
air eventually would be to catch up with the mild air of the approaching
warmth front. Some clouds, even cirrus, could spoil the fun.
The KNMI, and other weather-institutes, simply explain things like this. Our
weatherguys/ -women really are educators :-).
And, I also think, we're used to these confrontations of two air-masses --
cold air in the east-southeast and incoming milder air from the ocean. Its
rather common over Holland in wintertime. So not much of real grumbling
about snow, sleet or rain :-).

Concerning the warning systems. In general: I think its more a matter of
culture. When I visit your big beautiful island, its always striking how
often you're warned (!!) for almost everything :-). The only warning I
really missed was the pubs closing down at 23.00 h! :-)).

The KNMI doesn't know something like a warning-scale "early warning -
severe warning etc".
Warnings are always over the next 24 hours; given every half hour on radio,
and via every other available channel. Wind's given in Beaufort -- and there
warnings when windforce is above 6.
In serious conditions, like last weekend, the KNMI gives the windforce and
adds a warning for heavy to very heavy gusts, also 24 hours ahead. And, of
course, change it if necessary. Icy roads-warnings are the most common one
in winter.
Windchill is only added when there's real danger of frost-bite -- in general
with windchilltemps below ms 15 C.

I can imagine for British ears this warning-system sound very very
inaccurate -- but its okay with us :-).


Wijke

"Wijke" wrote in message
...
snip
The KNMI, and other weather-institutes, simply explain things like
this. Our
weatherguys/ -women really are educators :-).

.... yes, we don't seem to do very well at this - and yet it wasn't
always so. Probably dates from the days of fronts becoming 'weather
fronts' and (sshhhhh), don't mention the isobar! (it's a tramline). We
had a weather 'club' at school and used to post daily weather summaries
and publish seasonal reports in the school mag. (and no, this wasn't a
Public School - a County Secondary Modern with an enlightened Geography
master!). You would think from all the interesting weather events of
recent years that meteorology (as opposed to 'phew, wot a scorcher'
stories) would figure more prominently - I offered a few years ago to go
into my son's school to talk about 'the weather' and perhaps get some of
the youngsters interested, but there was no interest and I abandoned it
after a couple of attempts.

And, I also think, we're used to these confrontations of two
air-masses --
cold air in the east-southeast and incoming milder air from the ocean.
Its
rather common over Holland in wintertime. So not much of real
grumbling
about snow, sleet or rain :-).

.... well, so are we :-0 ... yet as you see, there have been a lot of
disappointed bunnies. As mentioned elsewhere, perhaps being too specific
was the problem. Perhaps the warnings to the Public Services should be
'as agreed' but those to the general public rather broader, but then we
would be accused of 'dumbing down' or with-holding data or some-such.

Concerning the warning systems. In general: I think its more a matter
of
culture. When I visit your big beautiful island, its always striking
how
often you're warned (!!) for almost everything :-). The only warning I
really missed was the pubs closing down at 23.00 h! :-)).

.... this is a constant refrain and there is some basis to it - but the
Warnings are put out to an agreed schedule/standard with the various
Public Services, NGO's, Broadcasting services, etc. As I posted
elsewhere though, the warnings do get pumped up somewhat along the line.


The KNMI doesn't know something like a warning-scale "early warning -
severe warning etc".
Warnings are always over the next 24 hours; given every half hour on
radio,
and via every other available channel. Wind's given in Beaufort -- and
there
warnings when windforce is above 6.
In serious conditions, like last weekend, the KNMI gives the windforce
and
adds a warning for heavy to very heavy gusts, also 24 hours ahead.
And, of
course, change it if necessary. Icy roads-warnings are the most common
one
in winter.
Windchill is only added when there's real danger of frost-bite -- in
general
with windchilltemps below ms 15 C.

.... as you say, if you are happy with it, then good for you. No doubt
the EC will harmonise everything in due course - a 'Euro-warning' [
Always make me think of Jim Hacker and the 'Euro-sausage' saga ;-) ]

Thanks for the very full reply,

Martin.

In message , Martin Rowley
writes

"Wijke" wrote in message
...
snip
The KNMI, and other weather-institutes, simply explain things like
this. Our
weatherguys/ -women really are educators :-).

... yes, we don't seem to do very well at this - and yet it wasn't
always so. Probably dates from the days of fronts becoming 'weather
fronts' and (sshhhhh), don't mention the isobar! (it's a tramline). We
had a weather 'club' at school and used to post daily weather summaries
and publish seasonal reports in the school mag. (and no, this wasn't a
Public School - a County Secondary Modern with an enlightened Geography
master!). You would think from all the interesting weather events of
recent years that meteorology (as opposed to 'phew, wot a scorcher'
stories) would figure more prominently - I offered a few years ago to go
into my son's school to talk about 'the weather' and perhaps get some of
the youngsters interested, but there was no interest and I abandoned it
after a couple of attempts.

The Geography Master I had at Ardrossan Academy in 1959-61 had
previously been a Forecaster in the Met Office. He was a weather
enthusiast and brought his enthusiasm into the lessons (quite outside of
the curriculum, I'm sure). He taught us the synoptic code and the basics
of meteorological analysis and forecasting. Thanks to him, by the age of
16 I could plot the observations on a surface chart and carry out a
passable analysis. These were useful skills that I took with me when I
joined the Met Office as an Assistant in 1961, especially as I wasn't
sent on an Initial Training Course until about 18 months after I joined.

Norman.
--
Norman Lynagh

On Tue, 23 Dec 2003 14:57:30 +0100, Wijke wrote:

When I visit your big beautiful island, its always striking how
often you're warned (!!) for almost everything :-).

The good 'ole nanny state. Mind you in some respects the great
unwashed bring such treatment upon themselves by not exhibiting any
"common sense" when confronted by a slightly dangerous situation and
none at all in a seriously dangerous one.

I can imagine for British ears this warning-system sound very very
inaccurate -- but its okay with us :-).

No, sounds very good. None of this half a guess at 4 days out with
reluctance to down grade or cancel the warning once issued. I'd much
rather have something with better accuracy at shorter notice.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail