"Steve Jackson" wrote in message
...
In message , Gavin Staples
writes

I did not realise that this had ever been recorded.
What
dreadful summers those must have been. 13.6C for an August CET. These
days
we take for granted an August CET of at least 16C or more. Perhaps we
shouldn't :-)

These summer's came at the end of the period know as the "little Ice
Age", so cold summers were the norm then and for a few hundred years
prior to that in what is known as a 'stadial'.

Recent warmth is a a cyclical shift that is quite normal in any
interglacial back to relative warmth.

Well that's what I teach my students anyway!
--
Steve Jackson

Well done Steve. I quite agree with you. I am a believer of climatic
variation, which is what we are having at the moment. We just happen to be
in a warming trend which is well within normal variations. In the period
1100 to 1500 the climate of this country was a great deal warmer than it is
now. I wonder what the greenhouse fanatics would make of that.


--
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Gavin Staples.

website updated regularly
www.gavinstaples.com

For the latest lecture in the Darwin Lecture Series in Cambridge, please
click on my site, and then click on the Darwin Lecture series link.

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of the kings of the world". ~Thomas A. Edison


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"Gavin Staples" wrote in message

Well done Steve. I quite agree with you. I am a believer of climatic
variation, which is what we are having at the moment. We just happen to be
in a warming trend which is well within normal variations. In the period
1100 to 1500 the climate of this country was a great deal warmer than it
is
now. I wonder what the greenhouse fanatics would make of that.

Greenhouse fanatics? For what purpose? So we should just continue polluting
then?

"Gavin Staples" wrote in message Well done
Steve. I quite agree with you. I am a believer of climatic
variation, which is what we are having at the moment. We just happen to be
in a warming trend which is well within normal variations. In the period
1100 to 1500 the climate of this country was a great deal warmer than it
is
now. I wonder what the greenhouse fanatics would make of that.



I thought the NG charter says no politically-motivated environmental chat?

"Gavin Staples" wrote in message
...


Well done Steve. I quite agree with you. I am a believer of climatic
variation, which is what we are having at the moment. We just happen to be
in a warming trend which is well within normal variations. In the period
1100 to 1500 the climate of this country was a great deal warmer than it
is
now. I wonder what the greenhouse fanatics would make of that.




I believe that the current global warming is caused by green house gases but
here are a number of articles some backing up Steve and Gavins argument.
However the thing which points to man made emmisions is most of the warming
is in the polar regions/ at night and in the winter months.

If solar then I believe most warming would occur during the summer months
and during the day, and in the sub-tropical regions.

Antartic sea ice breaking up see:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/314511.stm

Glacia retreat in Himalayas:
http://www.mtnforum.org/resources/library/bahaj98b.htm

Europes biggest glacier set to disintigrate, however evidence shows these
region was free of ice before 17th Century. backing up Steve and Gavin see:
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/inter...386319,00.html

Evidence that although decreasing over 90% of Earth, Glaciers are increasing
in some parts due to increased snow fall. Please note that these areas have
warmed as well:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/st...5130%2C00.html

One researcher claims car exhaust product may actualy have a net cooling
effect
http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_524431.html?menu=

An article which trys to disprove the fact that glaciers are retreating:
http://www.usefulinfo.co.uk/globalcl...c_glaciers.php

Another article which states that ice is in fact melting from Antartica
http://www.edie.net/gf.cfm?L=left_fr....net/news/Arch
ive/5027.cfm

Glaciers melting fast in Kazakhastan:
http://www.pentaclemagazine.org/php-...d&name=News&fi
le=article&sid=888

Global Climate change student guide:
http://www.doc.mmu.ac.uk/aric/gccsg/contents.html

more doom and gloom from a recent article on global warming:
http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/stor...472&p=79x8yy78

An article looking if "Water World" is a possible scenario, which makes a
point at the end that a rise in temp might allow the glaciers in Antartica
to start growing due to increased moistu
http://dialspace.dial.pipex.com/town...r/earth/water/

I just thought I would send these links to show that if the Scientists are
confused about what is happening then it is no wonder we are. The only thing
we can say is that we are putting pollutants into the atmosphere which we
know are needed in moderate amounts to keep the earth warm, but what will
happen if we keep pumping these into the atmosphere? Are these the reason
for the glacial retreat or as Steve and Gavin say due to natural variation
(solar or otherwise), but then again what is natural as our planet is not in
the natural state we started with and in fact is constantly changing.

There are many other articles out there, I think most now support global
warming is mainly a greenhouse gas product, however what will be the effects
in local areas? Will the climate just be a bit warmer or will there be large
variations round a higher mean. There was also evidence that the Medeival
warm period was less stormy than now !

Just some food for thought Stan

ps sorry for giving you all too much to read, of you all spend your time
reading these articles there will be no postings to uk.sci.weather.

Stan

"Stanley Kellett" wrote in message
...

"Gavin Staples" wrote in message
...


Well done Steve. I quite agree with you. I am a believer of climatic
variation, which is what we are having at the moment. We just happen to
be
in a warming trend which is well within normal variations. In the period
1100 to 1500 the climate of this country was a great deal warmer than it
is
now. I wonder what the greenhouse fanatics would make of that.




I believe that the current global warming is caused by green house gases
but
here are a number of articles some backing up Steve and Gavins argument.
However the thing which points to man made emmisions is most of the
warming
is in the polar regions/ at night and in the winter months.

If solar then I believe most warming would occur during the summer months
and during the day, and in the sub-tropical regions.

Antartic sea ice breaking up see:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/314511.stm

Glacia retreat in Himalayas:
http://www.mtnforum.org/resources/library/bahaj98b.htm

Europes biggest glacier set to disintigrate, however evidence shows these
region was free of ice before 17th Century. backing up Steve and Gavin
see:
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/inter...386319,00.html

Evidence that although decreasing over 90% of Earth, Glaciers are
increasing
in some parts due to increased snow fall. Please note that these areas
have
warmed as well:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/st...5130%2C00.html

One researcher claims car exhaust product may actualy have a net cooling
effect
http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_524431.html?menu=

An article which trys to disprove the fact that glaciers are retreating:
http://www.usefulinfo.co.uk/globalcl...c_glaciers.php

Another article which states that ice is in fact melting from Antartica

http://www.edie.net/gf.cfm?L=left_fr....net/news/Arch
ive/5027.cfm

Glaciers melting fast in Kazakhastan:

http://www.pentaclemagazine.org/php-...d&name=News&fi
le=article&sid=888

Global Climate change student guide:
http://www.doc.mmu.ac.uk/aric/gccsg/contents.html

more doom and gloom from a recent article on global warming:
http://breakingnews.iol.ie/news/stor...472&p=79x8yy78

An article looking if "Water World" is a possible scenario, which makes a
point at the end that a rise in temp might allow the glaciers in Antartica
to start growing due to increased moistu
http://dialspace.dial.pipex.com/town...r/earth/water/

I just thought I would send these links to show that if the Scientists are
confused about what is happening then it is no wonder we are. The only
thing
we can say is that we are putting pollutants into the atmosphere which we
know are needed in moderate amounts to keep the earth warm, but what will
happen if we keep pumping these into the atmosphere? Are these the reason
for the glacial retreat or as Steve and Gavin say due to natural variation
(solar or otherwise), but then again what is natural as our planet is not
in
the natural state we started with and in fact is constantly changing.

There are many other articles out there, I think most now support global
warming is mainly a greenhouse gas product, however what will be the
effects
in local areas? Will the climate just be a bit warmer or will there be
large
variations round a higher mean. There was also evidence that the Medeival
warm period was less stormy than now !

Just some food for thought Stan

"Stanley Kellett" wrote in
message ...

Antartic sea ice breaking up see:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/314511.stm

.... On this topic (and others linked to Antarctica), the new 'Weather'
magazine has a useful article (van den Broeke, van Lipzig, Marshall),
which point up the problems in using records from this region in the
greater debate. They make this comment on the 'standard' meteorological
record: " ... biased ... near the coast, the relative brevity of the
records and the strong dependence on near-surface temperature on wind
speed and cloudiness have until now hampered the detection of a robust
climate change signal in Antarctica." They point out that whilst a
warming trend (over that irregular record) can be determined in some
parts of the region, cooling can be detected elsewhere. There is a
suggestion that climate variation could possible be due to changes in
the Antarctic Oscillation, which in turn may or may not be directly
linked with observed global warming forced due to increased 'Greenhouse'
gases.

As regards ice-shelf break-up, we (mankind) have only been observing the
region in a consistent manner since the mid 1950's, and it is only with
the advent of high-resolution earth-orbiter satellites that a continuous
coverage of ice extent, height etc., has been possible. What happened in
earlier centuries?

snip

Just some food for thought Stan


.... and very tasty it is too - thanks Stan! I believe we are skewing the
ocean-atmosphere system in a significant way, but I wonder sometimes
what the proportion of *our* effect is relative to other (non-human
forced) effects is. And indeed, whether there is a surprise for us just
around the historical corner .....

Martin.