"Elena" wrote in message
om...
I read The Independent Online:

"In a startling report, the WMO, which normally produces detailed
scientific reports and staid statistics at the year's end, highlighted
record extremes in weather and climate occurring all over the world in
recent weeks - and linked them to climate change.
The unprecedented warning snip from an impeccably respected UN
organisation snip.
The unstable world of climate change has long been a prediction. Now,
the WMO says, it is a reality.snip

The whole story:
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...p?story=421166

Opinions ?

Hi Elena,

I have waited to reply to your post because I wanted to prove that there
would be little interest from this group in a very important announcement.

One of the reasons little action has been taken to counter global warming
is that meteorologists have remained uninterested in the problem, and
this gives entirely the wrong message to the general public.

One reason we in Britain are not concerned is because until now the
effects have not been marked. I suspect that in Finland the weather
is extremely warm for the time of year, and that was one reason for
your interest in the Independent report. The actual press release
from the WMO can be seen at;
http://www.wmo.ch/web/Press/Press695.doc

I begins;

----------------

ACCORDING TO THE WORLD METEOROLOGICAL ORGANIZATION,
EXTREME WEATHER EVENTS MIGHT INCREASE

Geneva, 2 July 2003 - Record extremes in weather and climate events continue
to occur around the world. Recent scientific assessments indicate that, as
the global temperatures continue to warm due to climate change, the number and
intensity of extreme events might increase, the World Meteorological
Organization (WMO) states in a press release issued today.

In June, record high temperatures were recorded across southern France, with
maximum temperatures exceeding 40°C in parts of southwest France. This
resulted in June average temperatures of 5 to 7°C above the long-term average.
In Switzerland, the month of June was the hottest in at least the past 250
years, according to environmental historians. In Geneva, since 29 May,
maximum daytime temperatures did not drop below 25°C, making June the hottest
June on record for the city.

---------------

The thing to note is that the WMO is based in Geneva. Switzerland had its
hottest month for 250 years. It is only when the meteorologist at the WMO
suffer from global warming that they take any notice. The reason the world
is taking no action is that the east coast of North America, where the centre
of political power resides, has not yet suffered these record tempratures, and
when they do they will be able to turn up the air conditioning.

The problem, as I see it, is that it is now too late to avoid disaster. When
the
glaciers and ice caps melt, the change in albedo will amplify the warming from
the carbon dioxide. Since they are melting now, even if we held CO2 at
today's levels the ice would continue to melt.

The current high temperatures, flooding, and droughts are only a taster of
what is to come, but this realistic view is regarded as nonsense by pundits
and public alike!

Cheers, Alastair.

In article , Alastair McDonald
k writes
"Elena" wrote in message
. com...
I read The Independent Online:

"In a startling report, the WMO, which normally produces detailed
scientific reports and staid statistics at the year's end, highlighted
record extremes in weather and climate occurring all over the world in
recent weeks - and linked them to climate change.
The unprecedented warning snip from an impeccably respected UN
organisation snip.
The unstable world of climate change has long been a prediction. Now,
the WMO says, it is a reality.snip

The whole story:
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...p?story=421166

Opinions ?

Hi Elena,

I have waited to reply to your post because I wanted to prove that there
would be little interest from this group in a very important announcement.

One of the reasons little action has been taken to counter global warming
is that meteorologists have remained uninterested in the problem, and
this gives entirely the wrong message to the general public.

One reason we in Britain are not concerned is because until now the
effects have not been marked. I suspect that in Finland the weather
is extremely warm for the time of year, and that was one reason for
your interest in the Independent report.

I can't understand why you think meteorologists are not interested in
the global warming discussion. It is one of the hot topics in the
profession these days and has been for some considerable time. The
interest, of course is in the science, not the politics. Perhaps it is
the politicians who are uninterested.

One point - It's important always to bear in mind that the relevant
topic is "global" warming, not unusual warmth in very localised areas.
The fact that parts (most?) of the British Isles have had an unusually
warm June proves nothing. Similarly, extremely warm conditions in
Finland proves nothing. Not so far away, Moscow had its coldest June
this year since 1941 but that doesn't prove global cooling As has
been reported in the past few days in this newsgroup, New Zealand has
been experiencing an unusually cold spell.

Also, despite the undoubted problems that will inevitably be caused by
global warming there are also bound to be benefits in some parts of the
world. It is inconceivable that changing climate can be all bad news.

Norman
--
Norman Lynagh Weather Consultancy
Chalfont St. Giles
Buckinghamshire

" The fact that parts (most?) of the British Isles have had an unusually
warm June proves nothing. Similarly, extremely warm conditions in
Finland proves nothing. Not so far away, Moscow had its coldest June
this year since 1941 but that doesn't prove global cooling As has
been reported in the past few days in this newsgroup, New Zealand has
been experiencing an unusually cold spell.

Also, despite the undoubted problems that will i



Several things.

The reason I mentioned Tuvalu was the fact they were, or still are
attempting to sue the USA and Australian goverment. Why you ask? Because
they said their small island was at risk of rising sea levels and the USA
and Australia were to blame. Of course the case didn't hold water (pun
intended) In fact the levels had dropped.
As we are living in an increasingly 'blame culture' society.
Where the louder a self interest group will shout and spin their apparent
plight, the more chattering class outfits like the Guardian,Independent and
NYT will report it with hand wringing empathetic frenzy. As a result large
sums of international funding find a new home.

Neatly on ....
At first I thought it was the Independent on Sunday who published an
infamous gaff of Mr Meacher. but I was wrong.
Now Mr Meacher( recently sacked environment minister ) made a statement in
the London Sunday Times and when you consider that this man has been the
darhlink of the Independent and Guardian for some time.It kind of devalues
the plausability of the arguments
This Meacher howler is an old chestnut now but still worth reading.

From August 2002 The Sunday Times. I bring you the truth

" Britain's Environment Minister Michael Meacher, who likes to berate the
U.S. for its backward stance on global warming, made a fool of himself in
the August 9 issue of the London Sunday Times. Here's an excerpt from the
interview:
Meacher: "I mean floods in Britain is one we are having to explain, rising
sea levels, but in America quite serious things are happening, certainly
stronger hurricanes on the east coast which are to do with, what is the name
of that hurricane that comes every 2-3 years?"

Interviewer: "They call them different names."

Meacher: "No, no, there is a name which is the Spanish word for a young
child, what is it called?"

Interviewer: El Niño."

Meacher: "The El Niño is becoming more frequent and more violent..".



There we are an experts view on El Niño .



Norman Lynagh sensibly cites the fact that Moscow had it's coldest June
since 1941 as an example of not getting too carried away with extremes.

But as we should all know by now that with the greenhouse lobby textreme
cold or extreme heat is a perfect example of global warming. So you can't
win.

A more sensible view would IMO be found here.

http://www.vision.net.au/~daly/christy.htm

"lawrence Jenkins" wrote in message
...

" The fact that parts (most?) of the British Isles have had an unusually
warm June proves nothing. Similarly, extremely warm conditions in
Finland proves nothing. Not so far away, Moscow had its coldest June
this year since 1941 but that doesn't prove global cooling As has
been reported in the past few days in this newsgroup, New Zealand has
been experiencing an unusually cold spell.

Also, despite the undoubted problems that will i



Several things.

The reason I mentioned Tuvalu was the fact they were, or still are
attempting to sue the USA and Australian goverment. Why you ask? Because
they said their small island was at risk of rising sea levels and the USA
and Australia were to blame. Of course the case didn't hold water (pun
intended) In fact the levels had dropped.
As we are living in an increasingly 'blame culture' society.
Where the louder a self interest group will shout and spin their apparent
plight, the more chattering class outfits like the Guardian,Independent
and
NYT will report it with hand wringing empathetic frenzy. As a result large
sums of international funding find a new home.

Neatly on ....
At first I thought it was the Independent on Sunday who published an
infamous gaff of Mr Meacher. but I was wrong.
Now Mr Meacher( recently sacked environment minister ) made a statement
in
the London Sunday Times and when you consider that this man has been the
darhlink of the Independent and Guardian for some time.It kind of devalues
the plausability of the arguments
This Meacher howler is an old chestnut now but still worth reading.

From August 2002 The Sunday Times. I bring you the truth

" Britain's Environment Minister Michael Meacher, who likes to berate the
U.S. for its backward stance on global warming, made a fool of himself in
the August 9 issue of the London Sunday Times. Here's an excerpt from the
interview:
Meacher: "I mean floods in Britain is one we are having to explain,
rising
sea levels, but in America quite serious things are happening, certainly
stronger hurricanes on the east coast which are to do with, what is the
name
of that hurricane that comes every 2-3 years?"

Interviewer: "They call them different names."

Meacher: "No, no, there is a name which is the Spanish word for a young
child, what is it called?"

Interviewer: El Niño."

Meacher: "The El Niño is becoming more frequent and more violent..".



There we are an experts view on El Niño .



Norman Lynagh sensibly cites the fact that Moscow had it's coldest June
since 1941 as an example of not getting too carried away with extremes.

But as we should all know by now that with the greenhouse lobby textreme
cold or extreme heat is a perfect example of global warming. So you can't
win.

A more sensible view would IMO be found here.

http://www.vision.net.au/~daly/christy.htm

Lawrence, for another view of what J. Daly has to say try
http://www.trump.net.au/~greenhou/. The word 'demolition' comes to mind.

In article , "Alastair McDonald" k writes:
"Elena" wrote in message
. com...
I read The Independent Online:

"In a startling report, the WMO, which normally produces detailed
scientific reports and staid statistics at the year's end, highlighted
record extremes in weather and climate occurring all over the world in
recent weeks - and linked them to climate change.

I have waited to reply to your post because I wanted to prove that there
would be little interest from this group in a very important announcement.

One of the reasons little action has been taken to counter global warming
is that meteorologists have remained uninterested in the problem, and
this gives entirely the wrong message to the general public.


Rubbish.

This news group does NOT equate to meteorologists, let alone to climate
researchers (almost none of whom post here).

Who are you to claim that "meteorologists have remained uninterested in
the problem"? Do you not understand that WMO stands for World
Meteorological Organisation - the publisher of the cited report and the
very reason for this thread - and that huge resources have been ploughed
into climate research over the past ten years.

That insufficient action has been taken is down to the politicians. You
know, the ones which hood-winked everybody over weapons of mass deception.


Exasperated Cheers,

keith



---
Operation Iraqi Liberation - OIL, for short.

"Alastair McDonald" k wrote
in message
snip

One of the reasons little action has been taken to counter global warming
is that meteorologists have remained uninterested in the problem
snip

Hmm, two words, Hadley and Centre...
http://www.metoffice.com/research/ha...odeltypes.html
http://www.metoffice.com/research/ha...modeldata.html
http://www.metoffice.com/research/ha...lks/index.html

Jon.

In article , Norman Lynagh writes:


snipping excellent comments...

Also, despite the undoubted problems that will inevitably be caused by
global warming there are also bound to be benefits in some parts of the
world. It is inconceivable that changing climate can be all bad news.

Permian extinction. 95% of all known life forms exterminated following
a 6 degree Celcius increase in global temperatures, initiating a melting
of the methane hydrates, causing runaway greenhouse effect. The largest
mass extinction recorded in the history of life on Earth.

No Cheers,

keith





---
Operation Iraqi Liberation - OIL, for short.

In article , Alastair McDonald
k writes
In a way you are making my point for me. The warming is global. So
local conditions, such as those in Moscow and New Zealand can not
be used to determine the state of play. On the other hand,
meteorologist are only people, and it is not until dramatic events
affect them that they take the situation seriously. The highest June
tempertures ever recorded in Geneva will sound the alarm at the
WMO. Highest averages for June in Reading, cause the Met Office
to yawn, and remark on an unsual statistic. It is only when a
temperature of 40C is recorded in Britain that we will sit up and take
notice.

The point I am trying to make is that this is not just an interesting
psychological observation. It is also pinpoints a danger. If no
action regards global warming is taken until it is having a dramatic
effect, by that time it will be too late to prevent even worse
happenings. It is really the reponsibility of meteorologists to point
out to the public that the weather is chaotic. Because of this, in the
past they have not been sure whether extreme events were due to
GW, but now GW is here to stay and can only get worse. The
cold events are only part of natural variability.

Hmmmm........You seem to be arguing that the warmest June since 1976 in
England is a sign of global warming but the coldest June since 1941 in
Moscow is only part of the natural variability. Perhaps I am
misunderstanding you.

Norman.
--
Norman Lynagh Weather Consultancy
Chalfont St. Giles
Buckinghamshire E-mail:

"Norman Lynagh" wrote in message
...

Hmmmm........You seem to be arguing that the warmest June since 1976 in
England is a sign of global warming but the coldest June since 1941 in
Moscow is only part of the natural variability. Perhaps I am
misunderstanding you.

Yes, I'm not arguing that the warmest June since 1976 in England is a sign
of global warming. I think you were the first to bring that up. I said "One
reason we in Britain are not concerned is because until now the effects
have not been marked." What I and the WMO are saying is that the
highest June temperatures in Geneva ever recorded AND many similar
happening in other parts of the world are a sign of global warming. I
readily agree that the warmest June since 1976 in England and the
coldest June since 1941 in Moscow is only part of the natural variability.

I do not have an anomally chart of surface air temperaturest but
there is this anomally chart of sea surface temperatures.
http://www.fnmoc.navy.mil/products/O...sstanomaly.gif

I think it is pretty obvious from that map, that although there IS natural
variability, the overall impression is of global warming, especially in the
northern hemisphere (if you can pardon that Irishism :-.)

Cheers, Alastair.



Norman.
--
Norman Lynagh Weather Consultancy
Chalfont St. Giles
Buckinghamshire E-mail:

"Keith Dancey" wrote in message
...
In article , "Alastair McDonald"
k writes:
"Elena" wrote in message
. com...
I read The Independent Online:

"In a startling report, the WMO, which normally produces detailed
scientific reports and staid statistics at the year's end, highlighted
record extremes in weather and climate occurring all over the world in
recent weeks - and linked them to climate change.

I have waited to reply to your post because I wanted to prove that there
would be little interest from this group in a very important announcement.

One of the reasons little action has been taken to counter global warming
is that meteorologists have remained uninterested in the problem, and
this gives entirely the wrong message to the general public.


Rubbish.

This news group does NOT equate to meteorologists, let alone to climate
researchers (almost none of whom post here).

Who are you to claim that "meteorologists have remained uninterested in
the problem"?

Just an ordinary punter who can't remember hearing the BBC weather
men and women, far less than those from ITV, show much concern
about rising global tempertures, or their consequences such as fires in
Australia and the USA.

... that huge resources have been ploughed
into climate research over the past ten years.

That insufficient action has been taken is down to the politicians. You
know, the ones which hood-winked everybody over weapons of mass deception.

What I am saying is nobody trusts the politicians. Until the weathermen are
willing to put their mouths where their money is, then Kyoto has no chance
of success!

Cheers, Alastair.