Plenty of mention about hazy skies today by forecasters even from one now
recognized in high circles but excellent horizontal visibility and fairly
deep blue sky in between the patches of cirrus and more dense sheets of
cirro stratus. A trip to a desert country or even southern Europe would
provide a more accurate description of haze. It is quite remarkable how ice
crystal cloud can be said to be hazy.
It is so simple to use an expression" a milky sky" than to say hazy when it
is not. Why constantly reinforce an inaccuracy.
Now I am off to give a talk to a group and I shall get then to look out of
the window and I might even mention an unmentionable word "cirrus".

Ian Currie-Coulsdon
www.frostedearth.com

Ian Currie wrote:
Plenty of mention about hazy skies today by forecasters even from one
now recognized in high circles but excellent horizontal visibility
and fairly deep blue sky in between the patches of cirrus and more
dense sheets of cirro stratus. A trip to a desert country or even
southern Europe would provide a more accurate description of haze. It
is quite remarkable how ice crystal cloud can be said to be hazy.
It is so simple to use an expression" a milky sky" than to say hazy
when it is not. Why constantly reinforce an inaccuracy.
Now I am off to give a talk to a group and I shall get then to look
out of the window and I might even mention an unmentionable word
"cirrus".

I can't see much wrong with the expression myself. I think the reference
is to the sunshine (not cloud) being indistinct which is one of the
meanings of 'hazy' in my dictionary.
Why should an adjective in general use be restricted to descriptions of
visibility just because the noun is also used technically for one
visibility range/obscuration type?

Tom Allen

I can't see much wrong with the expression myself. I think the reference
is to the sunshine (not cloud) being indistinct which is one of the
meanings of 'hazy' in my dictionary.
Why should an adjective in general use be restricted to descriptions of
visibility just because the noun is also used technically for one
visibility range/obscuration type?


The point is that "hazy sunshine" is a separate phenomenon from "milky"
or "watery" sunshine. It's yellowish sunshine in a dirty atmosphere and
simply has a different look and feel to it from sunshine partially obscured by
Ci. There need not be any cloud at all for there to be real "hazy sunshine"
though quite frequently there is Cu, the bases of which are yellow/brown and
the tops white. When you can easily look directly at the red globe of the sun
at an altitude of 5°, that's hazy sunshine.
I have even heard a forecast of "hazy sunshine" for a day when the sun
was going to be intermittently obscured by small/medium Cu. That is just
crass.
I suspect one reason we hear so much of this phrase is that many of
today's weather presenters have little feel for the weather (many obvious
instances of this) and the distinction between haze and high cloud simply does
not occur to them. Perhaps they've never noticed it, or perhaps they have, but
think such niceties are beyond the public. Have they ever thought that just a
smithereen of education could be a good thing? Dream on.

Tudor Hughes, Warlingham, Surrey.

I suspect one reason we hear so much of this phrase is that many of
today's weather presenters have little feel for the weather (many obvious
instances of this) and the distinction between haze and high cloud simply
does not occur to them. Perhaps they've never noticed it, or perhaps they
have,
but think such niceties are beyond the public. Have they ever thought that
just
a smithereen of education could be a good thing? Dream on.

Tudor Hughes, Warlingham, Surrey.

I suspect that the reason we hear the phrase 'hazy sunshine' is that it can be
said in a second or two - presentation getting in the way of accuracy.

As for education, yes, dream on. We seem to live in a society that views
education as a commodity to be purchased rather than something to be acquired
through curiosity (having spent the day correcting basic errors of spelling and
grammar in some degree level examination answers). Perhaps my neighbour's
barbeque (or, BBQ as some might say!) fumes are getting to me...

Julian
Julian Mayes, West Molesey, Surrey

"JJCMayes1" wrote in message
...

As for education, yes, dream on. We seem to live in a society that
views
education as a commodity to be purchased rather than something to
be acquired
through curiosity (having spent the day correcting basic errors of
spelling and
grammar in some degree level examination answers). Perhaps my
neighbour's
barbeque (or, BBQ as some might say!) fumes are getting to me...
^^^^^^^^
That's too subtle for this group, Julian!

pe

"JJCMayes1" wrote in message
...


As for education, yes, dream on. We seem to live in a society that views
education as a commodity to be purchased rather than something to be acquired
through curiosity (having spent the day correcting basic errors of spelling
and
grammar in some degree level examination answers). Perhaps my neighbour's
barbeque (or, BBQ as some might say!) fumes are getting to me...


Did the fumes cause some hazy sunshine?

Col
--
Bolton, Lancashire.
160m asl.
http://www.reddwarfer.btinternet.co.uk

Thanks Julian. Incidentally I received a two page letter from a chap who
read one of my forecasts a couple of years ago in which I had stated the
Weekend will have good weather- dry sunny and warm. The two pages consisted
of reasons why he likes cool, wet and cloudy conditions in summer and top of
his list was "less barbecue smoke wafting over his garden".
I was praying for rain at the end of his letter.

Ian Currie -Coulsdon


"JJCMayes1" wrote in message
...
I suspect one reason we hear so much of this phrase is that many of
today's weather presenters have little feel for the weather (many obvious
instances of this) and the distinction between haze and high cloud simply
does not occur to them. Perhaps they've never noticed it, or perhaps
they
have,
but think such niceties are beyond the public. Have they ever thought
that
just
a smithereen of education could be a good thing? Dream on.

Tudor Hughes, Warlingham, Surrey.

I suspect that the reason we hear the phrase 'hazy sunshine' is that it
can be
said in a second or two - presentation getting in the way of accuracy.

As for education, yes, dream on. We seem to live in a society that views
education as a commodity to be purchased rather than something to be
acquired
through curiosity (having spent the day correcting basic errors of
spelling and
grammar in some degree level examination answers). Perhaps my neighbour's
barbeque (or, BBQ as some might say!) fumes are getting to me...

Julian
Julian Mayes, West Molesey, Surrey

On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 14:03:34 +0100, "Ian Currie"
wrote:

Thanks Julian. Incidentally I received a two page letter from a chap who
read one of my forecasts a couple of years ago in which I had stated the
Weekend will have good weather- dry sunny and warm. The two pages consisted
of reasons why he likes cool, wet and cloudy conditions in summer and top of
his list was "less barbecue smoke wafting over his garden".
I was praying for rain at the end of his letter.

Hehe, that's how I feel about barbecues, too. Grrr!!!

I think the thing about hazy sunshine is that most people focus on the
result not the cause. If the sun is indistinct and the sunshine is
weak, to most people that is hazy sunshine. I think the cause (thin
high cloud, smoke, haze or mist) is irrelevant to the layman and some
forecasters have recognised this since at least the 1960s. It's not
always possible to tell which is which anyway - when the sun is low on
the horizon.

As long as weather presenters remember their intended audience, I
don't see a real problem. However, it is essential for them to
differentiate between "hazy" and "hazy sunshine", even to the layman..
The former should always indicate the presence of impaired visibility
whereas the latter may not (rightly or wrongly, in modern usage).

--
Dave

Thanks Tudor, and exactly the point I was trying to make. Hazy in the sense
used today is a lazy expression. A forecaster for today should have said "
it will be bright at times today rather than sunny as there will be thick
patches of high cloud " and of course in an ideal world you could mention
the dreaded word "cirrus" , an anathema to many forecasters. I mentioned it
to a group of retired people today and they did not immediately have a heart
attack or became paralysed with fear. The public can handle these words.
Also it would only have taken a few extra seconds at the most to say the
additional words I mentioned earlier.
As Tudor says true haze in the meteorological sense is quite different, a
sometimes lurid sky giving rise to completely different colour tones both of
the sky and those at ground level.

Ian Currie-Coulsdon



"TudorHgh" wrote in message
...
I can't see much wrong with the expression myself. I think the reference
is to the sunshine (not cloud) being indistinct which is one of the
meanings of 'hazy' in my dictionary.
Why should an adjective in general use be restricted to descriptions of
visibility just because the noun is also used technically for one
visibility range/obscuration type?


The point is that "hazy sunshine" is a separate phenomenon from
"milky"
or "watery" sunshine. It's yellowish sunshine in a dirty atmosphere and
simply has a different look and feel to it from sunshine partially
obscured by
Ci. There need not be any cloud at all for there to be real "hazy
sunshine"
though quite frequently there is Cu, the bases of which are yellow/brown
and
the tops white. When you can easily look directly at the red globe of
the sun
at an altitude of 5°, that's hazy sunshine.
I have even heard a forecast of "hazy sunshine" for a day when the
sun
was going to be intermittently obscured by small/medium Cu. That is just
crass.
I suspect one reason we hear so much of this phrase is that many of
today's weather presenters have little feel for the weather (many obvious
instances of this) and the distinction between haze and high cloud simply
does
not occur to them. Perhaps they've never noticed it, or perhaps they
have, but
think such niceties are beyond the public. Have they ever thought that
just a
smithereen of education could be a good thing? Dream on.

Tudor Hughes, Warlingham, Surrey.

TudorHgh wrote:


The point is that "hazy sunshine" is a separate phenomenon from
"milky" or "watery" sunshine. It's yellowish sunshine in a dirty
atmosphere and simply has a different look and feel to it from
sunshine partially obscured by Ci. There need not be any cloud at
all for there to be real "hazy sunshine" though quite frequently
there is Cu, the bases of which are yellow/brown and the tops white.

Are you not just describing haze, however generated and however topped ?
Maybe it is from frequent usage but I certainly now associate 'hazy
sunshine' with reduction in intensity due to thin high cloud. These are
two forecast elements, visibility and cloud, the latter as so often
being presented as the complement of sun.

When you can easily look directly at the red globe of the sun
at an altitude of 5°, that's hazy sunshine.

Or possibly just haze ?

Tom Allen