In message , Shaun Pudwell
writes
Well, I've said it before and I'll say it again, no one is suggesting global
warming in not happening!!!!

Apart from President Bush, the US government and the US fossil fuel
lobby. Or should that be all the US oil companies and their government.

There are some major problems as to its exact
cause. It is by no means only a lagacy of CO2, as the sun is apparently
more active now than at any time over the last thousand years and more than
one study has suggested a link between the sun and rising global
temperatures.

Plenty of studies show that roughly half the global rise in temperature
over the last century is due to an increase in solar output. But the
effects of greenhouse gasses like CO2 have only really been really
significant over the past three decades have led to a similar change and
that the relative importance of greenhouse gasses is still increasing.

During that latter period satellite monitoring of the solar constant
precludes all claims that the sun being somehow "more active" explains
the observed temperature rise. Even GW sceptic scientists concede this
point.

I think the jury is still out and I'll be very interested to
see what happens when the sun goes into a less active phase.

So long as CO2 concentrations continue to increase the global effect
will continue to build up. We can't avoid this at present, but we might
be able to buy some more time with better energy efficiency measures.

BTW What makes you think the sun is "more active" recently?

It is very slowly getting brighter and is modulated by a characteristic
22 year sunspot cycle but that is well documented and carefully
monitored by astronomers. These factors are all documented in the IPCC
study.

Regards,
--
Martin Brown

The only important thing here is that Mann and Co appear to have fabricated
their data. What their motives are is unclear, but I suspect it has
something to do with funding. The fact that no other scientific study has
been able to reproduce the so called Hockey Stick temperature profile is
evidence that Mann's original findings, as used by the IPCC to make policy
decisions are grossly wrong and verging on negligent.

The truth is out there by it's not in the form of the IPCC.

Shaun Pudwell.


"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...
In message , Shaun Pudwell
writes
Well, I've said it before and I'll say it again, no one is suggesting
global
warming in not happening!!!!

Apart from President Bush, the US government and the US fossil fuel
lobby. Or should that be all the US oil companies and their government.

There are some major problems as to its exact
cause. It is by no means only a lagacy of CO2, as the sun is apparently
more active now than at any time over the last thousand years and more
than
one study has suggested a link between the sun and rising global
temperatures.

Plenty of studies show that roughly half the global rise in temperature
over the last century is due to an increase in solar output. But the
effects of greenhouse gasses like CO2 have only really been really
significant over the past three decades have led to a similar change and
that the relative importance of greenhouse gasses is still increasing.

During that latter period satellite monitoring of the solar constant
precludes all claims that the sun being somehow "more active" explains
the observed temperature rise. Even GW sceptic scientists concede this
point.

I think the jury is still out and I'll be very interested to
see what happens when the sun goes into a less active phase.

So long as CO2 concentrations continue to increase the global effect
will continue to build up. We can't avoid this at present, but we might
be able to buy some more time with better energy efficiency measures.

BTW What makes you think the sun is "more active" recently?

It is very slowly getting brighter and is modulated by a characteristic
22 year sunspot cycle but that is well documented and carefully
monitored by astronomers. These factors are all documented in the IPCC
study.

Regards,
--
Martin Brown

The NCPA boast that they are not funded by the government. That
means that they are not an official organisation, despite their initials.
Moreover it is obvious they are not academic, so their funding must
come from industry - coal mining and the oil companies!

Perhaps you think otherwise?

Cheers, Alastair.

"Alastair McDonald" k wrote
in message ...
The NCPA boast that they are not funded by the government. That
means that they are not an official organisation, despite their initials.
Moreover it is obvious they are not academic, so their funding must
come from industry - coal mining and the oil companies!

Perhaps you think otherwise?

Cheers, Alastair.


Alastair this whole global warming thing is being milked for all the tax it
can accrue.
It's a Trojan Horse/golden goose. Yet you trust this lot? Any government
that can turn round and say that increasing the retirement age for men to 70
is anti ageism in practise and a positive move are two faced coniving liars.
How else did we get David King as the cheif scientific advisor. Of course
this hand picked nobody from south africa was made a Sir for his totally
unfounded propaganda.rants of gloom and dispare racking up the anxiety and
tax threshold levels.
You are too trusting of what essentially is one big unprincipled apologist
lie-machine that is now called politics. In an age of the exponential
ability to communicate never has so much spin and twaddle been utilised. We
now live in an age of Smoke and Mirrors. Behind the great Oz and the fear of
the Wicked warming witch is the hands of a grubby little gordon Brown or his
ilk. Just check out the council tax proposals.

I really believe the left are now devoid of any principles, in fact the
greeny looney anti- capitalism environment middle class left are trying to
take the history of the movement back to the dark days of religious
poppy-cock, only difference is they all live in very nice houses (Meacher
had eight!). The early left at least tried to prompt humans to break free
of superstition . Now most of the left are trying to promote Islam and take
us back to the dark ages.
So before I meander off course again, I'd rather trust the big oil companies
over the motley collection of vegies the foul the more developed countries
who take a very high and lofty moral view which is only made possible by
the big nasty wheels of capitalism.
So any innuendo thrown or suggested about the anti GW lobby's motives which
are simply to remain profitable protect investments (probably your pension
fund) whereas the GW protagonist are purely ideologically led, should be
challenged.
You know I loved John lennon he was a hero to me. But I cringed when he sang
"imagine no possessions, it's easy if you try" . Obviously in his caselike
Sir david King he had a very strong imagination

In message , Shaun Pudwell
writes
The only important thing here is that Mann and Co appear to have fabricated
their data. What their motives are is unclear, but I suspect it has
something to do with funding. The fact that no other scientific study has
been able to reproduce the so called Hockey Stick temperature profile is
evidence that Mann's original findings, as used by the IPCC to make policy
decisions are grossly wrong and verging on negligent.

The truth is out there by it's not in the form of the IPCC.

You would do well to read some more of the primary scientific literature
and less of the populist fossil fuel lobby shills on American lunatic
fringe sites.

In America you can buy scientists to testify on oath that "tobacco does
not cause cancer" using a very cleverly crafted form of words that
reassures Joe six pack to keep smoking 40 a day.

I expect that even when the sea is lapping at the White House steps
there will still be folk from NCPA and other fantasy American right-wing
think tanks swearing on oath that it is absolutely nothing to do with
rising CO2 levels.

The only thing that will make Americans take notice of GW as a serious
issue is when a cataclysm caused by it directly affects them. I reckon
expensive Florida beach properties will be a fairly good candidate, but
it could easily be US agriculture that suffers first.

The biggest problem with GW is that it is occurring gradually and over a
very much longer time scale than politicians can comfortably deal with.
Margaret Thatcher was an exception.

Regards,
--
Martin Brown

In article , "Shaun Pudwell" writes:

The only important thing here is that Mann and Co appear to have fabricated
their data. What their motives are is unclear, but I suspect it has
something to do with funding. The fact that no other scientific study has
been able to reproduce the so called Hockey Stick temperature profile is
evidence that Mann's original findings, as used by the IPCC to make policy
decisions are grossly wrong and verging on negligent.


Can you elaborate on what are your scientific credentials?

I'm interested in understanding the basis of your claims.

Cheers,

keith



---
Iraq: 5 thousand million pounds, 60 lives, and counting...
The Politicians will now seek to blame the Spooks.

Common sense and reading all the available literature.
Additionally, I am a computer programmer by trade and also the Director of
Evolution Software Research Limited.

I thought the idea on the news groups was so that every opinion could be
heard, whether or not it's compatible with your own views.

Shaun Pudwell.


"Keith Dancey" wrote in message
...
In article , "Shaun Pudwell"
writes:

The only important thing here is that Mann and Co appear to have
fabricated
their data. What their motives are is unclear, but I suspect it has
something to do with funding. The fact that no other scientific study
has
been able to reproduce the so called Hockey Stick temperature profile is
evidence that Mann's original findings, as used by the IPCC to make
policy
decisions are grossly wrong and verging on negligent.


Can you elaborate on what are your scientific credentials?

I'm interested in understanding the basis of your claims.

Cheers,

keith



---
Iraq: 5 thousand million pounds, 60 lives, and counting...
The Politicians will now seek to blame the Spooks.

Not very tolerant or wise is Chief Dancey, bad medicine speak with forked
tongue.
Now James Croll theres a man who was a scientist from cradle to grave!

1821 Born 2 January 1821, at Cargill, near Perth

1837 - 1850; Apprentice millwright, then tea merchant in Elgin

1848 Married Isabella Macdonald

1852-3; Ran a temperance hotel in Blairgowrie, making much of the
furniture himself.

1853- 1858; Insurance salesman (an agent for the Safety Life Assurance
Society, residing at Glasgow, at Edinburgh, and then at Leicester).

1858; Worked for a temperance weekly newspaper ("The Commonwealth").

1859; Janitor in the Andersonian College and Museum, Glasgow.

1867-80; Clerical post with the Geological Survey of Scotland, Edinburgh, as
keeper of the maps and correspondence. where the Director, Archibald Geikie,
encouraged him to carry out his own research.

1876; Granted an honorary degree from St Andrews University. Elected
Fellow of the Royal Society on 1st June, 1876.

1880; Retired early at 59 due to ill health

1890; Died, in Perth.


Cheif dancey with wolves. Put that in you pompous pipe and smoke it- with
Co2 free substances of course.









"Shaun Pudwell" wrote in message
...
Common sense and reading all the available literature.
Additionally, I am a computer programmer by trade and also the Director of
Evolution Software Research Limited.

I thought the idea on the news groups was so that every opinion could be
heard, whether or not it's compatible with your own views.

Shaun Pudwell.


"Keith Dancey" wrote in message
...
In article , "Shaun Pudwell"
writes:

The only important thing here is that Mann and Co appear to have
fabricated
their data. What their motives are is unclear, but I suspect it has
something to do with funding. The fact that no other scientific study
has
been able to reproduce the so called Hockey Stick temperature profile
is
evidence that Mann's original findings, as used by the IPCC to make
policy
decisions are grossly wrong and verging on negligent.


Can you elaborate on what are your scientific credentials?

I'm interested in understanding the basis of your claims.

Cheers,

keith



---
Iraq: 5 thousand million pounds, 60 lives, and counting...
The Politicians will now seek to blame the Spooks.

In article , "Shaun Pudwell" writes:

Common sense and reading all the available literature.

Common sense has little to do with Physics.


Additionally, I am a computer programmer by trade and also the Director of
Evolution Software Research Limited.

Irrelevant.

What original professional research have you done on climate change?

Are you sufficiently competant in the discipline to attract funding for
your work, for instance? Was it published in peer-reviewed journals?
Do you have relevant qualifications?




I thought the idea on the news groups was so that every opinion could be
heard, whether or not it's compatible with your own views.


Oh indeed. Even the opinions of bloated charlatans and complete fools.


But you wrote:


In article , "Shaun Pudwell" writes:

The only important thing here is that Mann and Co appear to have fabricated
their data. What their motives are is unclear, but I suspect it has
something to do with funding.


....and I wondered whether your opinion on the matter was worth consideration.



Cheers,

keith





---
Iraq: 5 thousand million pounds, 60 lives, and counting...
The Politicians will now seek to blame the Spooks.

All I am saying, is that I am an intelligent professional person with a long
standing interest in Meteorology and Climate. I am entitled to my own point
of view, which some on this group don't like. Well ******** to them!!!!
When the **** hits the fan and the climate doesn't do what it's supposed to,
I'll be there laughing my damn head off. The level of knowledge required to
forecast future climate does not currently exist, and will not for the
foreseeable future.

Shaun Pudwell.

"Keith Dancey" wrote in message
...
In article , "Shaun Pudwell"
writes:

Common sense and reading all the available literature.

Common sense has little to do with Physics.


Additionally, I am a computer programmer by trade and also the Director
of
Evolution Software Research Limited.

Irrelevant.

What original professional research have you done on climate change?

Are you sufficiently competant in the discipline to attract funding for
your work, for instance? Was it published in peer-reviewed journals?
Do you have relevant qualifications?




I thought the idea on the news groups was so that every opinion could be
heard, whether or not it's compatible with your own views.


Oh indeed. Even the opinions of bloated charlatans and complete fools.


But you wrote:


In article , "Shaun Pudwell"
writes:

The only important thing here is that Mann and Co appear to have
fabricated
their data. What their motives are is unclear, but I suspect it has
something to do with funding.


...and I wondered whether your opinion on the matter was worth
consideration.



Cheers,

keith





---
Iraq: 5 thousand million pounds, 60 lives, and counting...
The Politicians will now seek to blame the Spooks.