Can you recommend a URL that lists these, as I'm trying to convince a
sceptic that the world's temperature *is* rising.
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham

"Paul Hyett" wrote in message
...
Can you recommend a URL that lists these, as I'm trying to convince a
sceptic that the world's temperature *is* rising.
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham


http://www.giss.nasa.gov/data/update...LB.Ts+dSST.txt

see the columns labelled "AnnMean" where the difference from the 1951-80
climate period is given (in hundredths of degC).


Martin.

"Martin Rowley" wrote in
message ...

"Paul Hyett" wrote in message
...
Can you recommend a URL that lists these, as I'm trying to convince a
sceptic that the world's temperature *is* rising.

http://www.giss.nasa.gov/data/update...LB.Ts+dSST.txt

see the columns labelled "AnnMean" where the difference from the
1951-80 climate period is given (in hundredths of degC).

and this graphic may be easier to digest .. also lots of useful
information.

http://www.metoffice.com/research/ha...mperature.html


Martin.


--
FAQ & Glossary for uk.sci.weather at:-
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"Paul Hyett" wrote in message
...
Can you recommend a URL that lists these, as I'm trying to convince a
sceptic that the world's temperature *is* rising.
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham

Hi Paul

It depends how much your sceptic knows. There are different ways to measure
the world's temperature e.g. the surface record, satellite observations,
weather balloon obs but the data all require certain corrections and / or
extrapolations such as - in the case of the surface record - corrections for
urban heat island effects.
The problems come when experts start arguing over whether the corrections
are correct or not! The data set for the (satellite measured) monthly mean
lower troposphere temperatures is at
http://vortex.nsstc.uah.edu/data/msu/t2lt/tltglhmam_5.1 and that shows a
global decadal temperature trend of a mere + 0.077 C which may not impress
your sceptic overly when he/she recalls some of the scare stories in the
media.

Your best bet is to concentrate on figures from the surface record that show
a much steeper temperature rise so you would do best to use the links that
Martin Rowley has provided and try not to get sucked into an argument about
why the surface record trend is greatly different to the satellite measured
trend and the balloon observed trend (if your sceptic should be aware of
this). Anyone who can solve that puzzle conclusively will be on the way to
settling the global warming debate.

Martin
Guernsey

In uk.sci.weather on Wed, 29 Sep 2004 at 00:22:21, Martin Crozier wrote
:

"Paul Hyett" wrote in message
...
Can you recommend a URL that lists these, as I'm trying to convince a
sceptic that the world's temperature *is* rising.
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham

Hi Paul

It depends how much your sceptic knows.

He's an American who is convinced that Kyoto/Global Warming is nothing
more than a scam to undermine American industry.

Your best bet is to concentrate on figures from the surface record that show
a much steeper temperature rise so you would do best to use the links that
Martin Rowley has provided and try not to get sucked into an argument about
why the surface record trend is greatly different to the satellite measured
trend and the balloon observed trend (if your sceptic should be aware of
this). Anyone who can solve that puzzle conclusively will be on the way to
settling the global warming debate.

How about a graph that shows rising CO2 levels over the past couple of
centuries?
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham

In uk.sci.weather on Tue, 28 Sep 2004 at 09:30:58, Martin Rowley wrote :

Can you recommend a URL that lists these, as I'm trying to convince a
sceptic that the world's temperature *is* rising.

http://www.metoffice.com/research/ha...mperature.html

Thanks for the info - but I'm having little success with my sceptic so
far.
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham

"Paul Hyett" wrote in message
...
In uk.sci.weather on Wed, 29 Sep 2004 at 00:22:21, Martin Crozier
wrote
:

"Paul Hyett" wrote in message
...
Can you recommend a URL that lists these, as I'm trying to
convince a
sceptic that the world's temperature *is* rising.
--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham

Hi Paul

It depends how much your sceptic knows.

He's an American who is convinced that Kyoto/Global Warming is
nothing
more than a scam to undermine American industry.

How sharp is he? Ask him to put himself in the position of
the Chief Exec of a large American oil corporation.
He is 50; he's got ten years or so left in business. How would
he react to information which indicated the certainty of a
progressive global warming, but which would not have
significant repercussions until some undefined time in the
future (though probably not within ten years)?

I think you know what the answer should be. His answer
will also tell you if he is honest.

Philip Eden

"Paul Hyett" wrote in message
...

How about a graph that shows rising CO2 levels over the past couple of
centuries?

http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/095.htm

The whole thing is worth ploughing through (whatever your viewpoint),
but what you want is section 3.2.2.4 and for the graphs, 3.2.3.2

Another one I've found useful (the whole document, but this specific
section) is:


http://www.ace.mmu.ac.uk/Resources/gcc/6-4-1-4.html

Happy reading!

Martin.

Hi Paul

It depends how much your sceptic knows.

He's an American who is convinced that Kyoto/Global Warming is nothing
more than a scam to undermine American industry.

That's a good one - Bush will never sign Kyoto and Kerry stands no chance of
getting it through the Senate. So if the rest of the world signs up to Kyoto
and its industrial companies start paying serious carbon / energy taxes who
gets instantly more competitive? Er - American industry....?

How about a graph that shows rising CO2 levels over the past couple of
centuries?

Even that is disputed Paul - take a look at:
http://www.warwickhughes.com/icecore/

The problem with this debate is that people (including scientists) on both
sides of it are getting entrenched into their positions and grabbing at
whatever bits of data suit their side of the argument. If that continues
then we end up in a media war in which whichever side is spinning the best
stories is "winning". It's a dangerous game because there is a temptation to
make ever more extreme claims to try to grab the headlines and the research
money. The media love this of course and start playing the "set them up and
knock them down" game. I would like to think that man-made global warming
could be proved or disproved by science. Instead I have a dark premonition
that nobody will care about the science once the Met Office and global
warming gets a nasty trashing during the great freeze of 2005 and public
opinion is channelled by wot the Sun sez...

Martin
Guernsey

--
Paul Hyett, Cheltenham

In article , "Martin Crozier" writes:

"Paul Hyett" wrote in message
...
Can you recommend a URL that lists these, as I'm trying to convince a
sceptic that the world's temperature *is* rising.


Your best bet is to concentrate on figures from the surface record that show
a much steeper temperature rise so you would do best to use the links that
Martin Rowley has provided and try not to get sucked into an argument about
why the surface record trend is greatly different to the satellite measured
trend and the balloon observed trend (if your sceptic should be aware of
this). Anyone who can solve that puzzle conclusively will be on the way to
settling the global warming debate.


I can solve that "puzzle" quite easily: the satellite "trend" as measured
over just two decades(!) simply does not produce any signal over and above the
noise of the readings. These are remotely sensed, derived, temperatures with
very wide error bars.

The surface record, on the other hand, extends centuries. This is a much more
accurate, directly measured - although sparse - dataset. Issues which apply to instrument changes over time, apply equally to satellite readings.


Cheers,

keith





---
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The Politicians will now seek to blame the Spooks.