I hear that the Met Office and councils are going to set up a more
targetted scheme for reducing road problems due to ice. They should
ponder this:

Can sub-freezing temperatures alone cause ice to form on dry roads?
No.

So why do they grit dry roads? The resulting damp salty film on the
roads caused by salt's hygroscopic properties forms more of a driving
hazard than if they had left the roads ungritted.

Martin.

So why do they grit dry roads? The resulting damp salty film on the
roads caused by salt's hygroscopic properties forms more of a driving
hazard than if they had left the roads ungritted.

Martin.

Why indeed? A complete waste of time. They should concentrate their
efforts on the times when it's likely to snow. Croydon LBC are particularly
good at turning the A22 and A23 into what looks like a road behind the sand
dunes after a gale (the last few nights, for example) but are not always on the
ball when it snows.

Tudor Hughes, Warlingham, Surrey.

On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 21:55:45 +0000, JPG wrote:

I hear that the Met Office and councils are going to set up a more
targetted scheme for reducing road problems due to ice. They should
ponder this:

Can sub-freezing temperatures alone cause ice to form on dry roads?
No.

So why do they grit dry roads? The resulting damp salty film on the
roads caused by salt's hygroscopic properties forms more of a driving
hazard than if they had left the roads ungritted.

Expected hoar frost? I've been on New Forest roads in the early hours
when hoar frost formed on initially dry roads and was compressed by
traffic into a thin ice layer. I cursed them for not gritting,
especially the night when, entering a roundabout gently in a highish
gear at 5 mph, it was impossible to stop the car from sliding sideways
into the traffic island...

But yes, I agree, they do sometimes overdo it.

--
Dave

Dave Ludlow wrote:

On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 21:55:45 +0000, JPG wrote:

I hear that the Met Office and councils are going to set up a more
targetted scheme for reducing road problems due to ice. They should
ponder this:

Can sub-freezing temperatures alone cause ice to form on dry roads?
No.

So why do they grit dry roads? The resulting damp salty film on the
roads caused by salt's hygroscopic properties forms more of a driving
hazard than if they had left the roads ungritted.

Expected hoar frost? I've been on New Forest roads in the early hours
when hoar frost formed on initially dry roads and was compressed by
traffic into a thin ice layer. I cursed them for not gritting,
especially the night when, entering a roundabout gently in a highish
gear at 5 mph, it was impossible to stop the car from sliding sideways
into the traffic island...

But yes, I agree, they do sometimes overdo it.


Yes, I've had problems with roads covered with hoar frost. One morning, on
the way home from work, I had a 180-degree spin on a road covered in hoar
frost. This was a little-used country road so compression of the frost was
not a factor. On the same road one Sunday evening for a midnight start of a
forecast duty at Wattisham, I had a couple of scary moments due to heavy
hoar frost. This was followed by a third when I got to work and found out
that there were no frost or icy-road warnings in force! The problem was
that our parent Met Office for the weekend had looked at Wattisham's
temperatures and believed they were representative of conditions in East
Suffolk. In fact, they had no relevance to temperatures a hundred metres
from the airfield let alone half of Suffolk. As happens at that location on
calm nights, Wattisham airfield was above the inversion and had a minimum
of 3 DegC that night.

Graham

On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 04:22:34 +0000, Dave Ludlow
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 21:55:45 +0000, JPG wrote:

I hear that the Met Office and councils are going to set up a more
targetted scheme for reducing road problems due to ice. They should
ponder this:

Can sub-freezing temperatures alone cause ice to form on dry roads?
No.

So why do they grit dry roads? The resulting damp salty film on the
roads caused by salt's hygroscopic properties forms more of a driving
hazard than if they had left the roads ungritted.

Expected hoar frost? I've been on New Forest roads in the early hours
when hoar frost formed on initially dry roads and was compressed by
traffic into a thin ice layer. I cursed them for not gritting,
especially the night when, entering a roundabout gently in a highish
gear at 5 mph, it was impossible to stop the car from sliding sideways
into the traffic island...

But yes, I agree, they do sometimes overdo it.

================================================== ==================
This posting expresses the personal view and opinions of the author.
Something which everyone on this planet should be able to do.
================================================== ==================

On friday morning the moorland road to Widecombe was covered in a thin layer of
ice due to hoar frost deposits. It was a gingerly drive down the hill for me.
I'm used to roads not being salted/gritted up here and when you know that and
drive accordingly it's not too bad. After a light fall of snow the roads are
fine as the snow gives grip but the danger comes later as the snow melts and it
turns slushy and slippery. Mind you there is no way in my car can I drive up the
hill onto the main road in snow, far too steep, so we often do some
self-gritting when necessary.

Will.
--

" Visit Haytor meteorological office at
http://www.lyneside.demon.co.uk/Hayt...met_office.htm "
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A COL BH site in East Dartmoor at Haytor, Devon 310m asl (1017 feet).

mailto:
www: http://www.lyneside.demon.co.uk

DISCLAIMER - All views and opinions expressed by myself are personal
and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"JPG" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 04 Dec 2004 04:22:34 +0000, Dave Ludlow
wrote:

On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 21:55:45 +0000, JPG wrote:

I hear that the Met Office and councils are going to set up a more
targetted scheme for reducing road problems due to ice. They should
ponder this:

Can sub-freezing temperatures alone cause ice to form on dry roads?
No.

So why do they grit dry roads? The resulting damp salty film on the
roads caused by salt's hygroscopic properties forms more of a driving
hazard than if they had left the roads ungritted.

Expected hoar frost? I've been on New Forest roads in the early hours
when hoar frost formed on initially dry roads and was compressed by
traffic into a thin ice layer. I cursed them for not gritting,
especially the night when, entering a roundabout gently in a highish
gear at 5 mph, it was impossible to stop the car from sliding sideways
into the traffic island...

But yes, I agree, they do sometimes overdo it.

During the past week I was driving on the M25 in the Heathrow area and signs
were being displayed "gritting in progress". Indeed the whole section up to
Reigate Hill was smothered. The temperature was around 5C and a cloud cover
was spreading in actually raising the ambient temperature. I am not sure
what sort of targetted scheme this is. In fact roads in my area are looking
damp due to the salt in spite of no rain and dry conditions away from the
gritted roads. Money would be much better spent in having more traffic
police patrols, better communications and advice and there should be more
stringent penalties for improper motorway driving such as tailgating at
excessive speeds, over the limit for alcohol and taking certain drugs whilst
driving etc. Salt alone is not going to cure today's aggressive driving. You
could argue that it actually will make drivers go faster.

Ian Currie- Coulsdon



"Graham P Davis" wrote in message
...
Dave Ludlow wrote:

On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 21:55:45 +0000, JPG wrote:

I hear that the Met Office and councils are going to set up a more
targetted scheme for reducing road problems due to ice. They should
ponder this:

Can sub-freezing temperatures alone cause ice to form on dry roads?
No.

So why do they grit dry roads? The resulting damp salty film on the
roads caused by salt's hygroscopic properties forms more of a driving
hazard than if they had left the roads ungritted.

Expected hoar frost? I've been on New Forest roads in the early hours
when hoar frost formed on initially dry roads and was compressed by
traffic into a thin ice layer. I cursed them for not gritting,
especially the night when, entering a roundabout gently in a highish
gear at 5 mph, it was impossible to stop the car from sliding sideways
into the traffic island...

But yes, I agree, they do sometimes overdo it.


Yes, I've had problems with roads covered with hoar frost. One morning, on
the way home from work, I had a 180-degree spin on a road covered in hoar
frost. This was a little-used country road so compression of the frost was
not a factor. On the same road one Sunday evening for a midnight start of
a
forecast duty at Wattisham, I had a couple of scary moments due to heavy
hoar frost. This was followed by a third when I got to work and found out
that there were no frost or icy-road warnings in force! The problem was
that our parent Met Office for the weekend had looked at Wattisham's
temperatures and believed they were representative of conditions in East
Suffolk. In fact, they had no relevance to temperatures a hundred metres
from the airfield let alone half of Suffolk. As happens at that location
on
calm nights, Wattisham airfield was above the inversion and had a minimum
of 3 DegC that night.

Graham

Amen to all that.

CK
"Ian Currie" wrote in message
k...
During the past week I was driving on the M25 in the Heathrow area and
signs
were being displayed "gritting in progress". Indeed the whole section up
to
Reigate Hill was smothered. The temperature was around 5C and a cloud
cover
was spreading in actually raising the ambient temperature. I am not sure
what sort of targetted scheme this is. In fact roads in my area are
looking
damp due to the salt in spite of no rain and dry conditions away from the
gritted roads. Money would be much better spent in having more traffic
police patrols, better communications and advice and there should be more
stringent penalties for improper motorway driving such as tailgating at
excessive speeds, over the limit for alcohol and taking certain drugs
whilst
driving etc. Salt alone is not going to cure today's aggressive driving.
You
could argue that it actually will make drivers go faster.

Ian Currie- Coulsdon



"Graham P Davis" wrote in message
...
Dave Ludlow wrote:

On Fri, 03 Dec 2004 21:55:45 +0000, JPG wrote:

I hear that the Met Office and councils are going to set up a more
targetted scheme for reducing road problems due to ice. They should
ponder this:

Can sub-freezing temperatures alone cause ice to form on dry roads?
No.

So why do they grit dry roads? The resulting damp salty film on the
roads caused by salt's hygroscopic properties forms more of a driving
hazard than if they had left the roads ungritted.

Expected hoar frost? I've been on New Forest roads in the early hours
when hoar frost formed on initially dry roads and was compressed by
traffic into a thin ice layer. I cursed them for not gritting,
especially the night when, entering a roundabout gently in a highish
gear at 5 mph, it was impossible to stop the car from sliding sideways
into the traffic island...

But yes, I agree, they do sometimes overdo it.


Yes, I've had problems with roads covered with hoar frost. One morning,
on
the way home from work, I had a 180-degree spin on a road covered in
hoar
frost. This was a little-used country road so compression of the frost
was
not a factor. On the same road one Sunday evening for a midnight start
of
a
forecast duty at Wattisham, I had a couple of scary moments due to heavy
hoar frost. This was followed by a third when I got to work and found
out
that there were no frost or icy-road warnings in force! The problem was
that our parent Met Office for the weekend had looked at Wattisham's
temperatures and believed they were representative of conditions in East
Suffolk. In fact, they had no relevance to temperatures a hundred metres
from the airfield let alone half of Suffolk. As happens at that location
on
calm nights, Wattisham airfield was above the inversion and had a
minimum
of 3 DegC that night.

Graham